Were the first two seasons a waste?

[Sindatur]

Neat, thanks!

So are there any in S1 or S2 that are required viewing to understand the later seasons' "big picture" story lines?

I think the Bajoran Religion and Political episodes really add to the Later Character Arc of several characters.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

The 1st season is kind of a waste. I feel like Emissary, Duet, and In the Hands of the Prophets are really the bookend standouts and you can forget about the rest.

The 2nd season has value because of both multiple good episodes but also you can see the move away from TNG-style stories. The Circle trilogy, The Wire, Cardassians, Necessary Evil, The Jem Hadar, these all feel like "DS9 stories"

 

[sonak]

On the whole, yes, the first two seasons of DS9 were a waste.

Having said that, they still have a few great standout episodes within them, i.e. Captive Pursuit, Shadowplay, The Wire, Necessary Evil.

But all the great episodes in the first two seasons are great because they ignored the overall theme of DS9's first two seasons: Bajorans whining incessantly about being oppressed.

The great episodes of the first two seasons could have been put in any other season instead.

I disagree, Waltz, The Circle Trilogy, and several other great episodes from the first two seasons are precisely about the Bajorans pain and recovery/vengeance from being oppressed, personally that's what I really like about the first two seasons.

I assume you're referring to "duet" and not "waltz?"

 

[Sindatur]

On the whole, yes, the first two seasons of DS9 were a waste.

Having said that, they still have a few great standout episodes within them, i.e. Captive Pursuit, Shadowplay, The Wire, Necessary Evil.

But all the great episodes in the first two seasons are great because they ignored the overall theme of DS9's first two seasons: Bajorans whining incessantly about being oppressed.

The great episodes of the first two seasons could have been put in any other season instead.

I disagree, Waltz, The Circle Trilogy, and several other great episodes from the first two seasons are precisely about the Bajorans pain and recovery/vengeance from being oppressed, personally that's what I really like about the first two seasons.

I assume you're referring to "duet" and not "waltz?"

Damn, I do that all the time. Yea, Duet, thanks for the correction

 

[DeepSpaceWine]

How about Captive Pursuits? That was a Season 1 favorite for years.

 

[Trek Survivor]

One of my pet-hates is fans who go on and on about how the series "didn't get good" until the Dominion and the dreary, worn-out war stories of season 6-7.

I prefer season one and two to seasons 6 and 7 (there are some good episodes post-season 5, but they're overshadowed by mediocrity).

 

[You_Will_Fail]

Short answer:

B&B went off to screw up Voyager and left DS9 alone.

Brannon Braga had no involvement whatsoever with DS9 and he certainly wouldn't have had any big say in what the stories should have been even if he did. I also think that if he had been a writer for DS9, he would have given the show some amazing stuff.

Anyway as for the OP's questions and a definitive answer.
No, they were not a "waste" in the slightest. I'm actually rewatching the first two seasons and am remembering what I love so much about the show. Even though there may be a new plot each episode TNG style, its so very different. The characters live are continuing through all the episodes - they're developing and growing and we learn so much about them. From the Kira in episode 1/2 who resents the Federation's presence to the Kira at the end when she has grown to consider Jadzia/Miles etc as friends.
This is where TNG and Voyager pales in comparison, even when DS9 is being "episodic" we're still getting a rich vein of continuity and a feeling of discovery and getting settled in in those first two seasons. Its quite amazing really that DS9 was doing all this in their first season and when Voyager came along three years they totally bungled trying to create a sense of home/community and continuity aboard the ship.

I prefer season one and two to seasons 6 and 7 (there are some good episodes post-season 5, but they're overshadowed by mediocrity).

I'd take an episode like "Progress" or "Cardassians" over something like "The Siege of AR-558" anyday.

 

[BennyRussel]

I would put "Duet", "Progress" and "Captive Pursuits" in the top 15 of all DS9. "Captive Pursuits" just for the Odo "slow walk."

I also think "Emissary" is an underrated pilot.

 

[Worf'sParmach]

They are no more a waste than the first two seasons of TNG.

 

[jdogric12]

Excellent replies, thanks everyone! I've watched 101-107, 113, 119-120, 201-205. Loving it!

(btw these numbers correspond to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine_episodes)

 

[LOKAI of CHERON]

I adore DS9 from start to finish - but for me - seasons one and two are my preferred viewing. So no, not a waste at all.

 

[Sindatur]

I also think "Emissary" is an underrated pilot.

Yea, I enjoy it, it set the premise up well, introduced the characters, showed the new, more realistic tone of the Series, showed that things matter from one episode to the next (IE: You still see the station being cleaned up for a few episodes, you see O'Brien struggling with repairs, etc). I've never understood why people dislike it?

 

[Miss Lemon]

Even though there may be a new plot each episode TNG style, its so very different. The characters live are continuing through all the episodes - they're developing and growing and we learn so much about them. From the Kira in episode 1/2 who resents the Federation's presence to the Kira at the end when she has grown to consider Jadzia/Miles etc as friends.
This is where TNG and Voyager pales in comparison, even when DS9 is being "episodic" we're still getting a rich vein of continuity and a feeling of discovery and getting settled in in those first two seasons. Its quite amazing really that DS9 was doing all this in their first season and when Voyager came along three years they totally bungled trying to create a sense of home/community and continuity aboard the ship.

This is what I love about DS9 as well, the friendships, the character development, and the continuity. The cast worked so great together and all characters were interesting, especially the recurring characters.

 

[RoJoHen]

If nothing else, Seasons 1 and 2 help establish the fact that Kai Winn is a manipulative, power-hungry bitch.

 

[IntrepidMan]

^Very true.

 

[Ln X]

Short answer is yes with a but, and the long answer is no with a if. Yes you could argue they (writers) could have been bolder with the plots (more political stuff like we see in later seasons and more story arcs) but the writers were still figuring out where to take the series and only Ira Steven Behr worked it out with the Dominion, the Ferengi, the Maquis and the Klingon plots.

The long answer is no, the first two seasons were not a waste because there is something distinctive about them; DS9 still retained some of its TNG innocence and the plots were more focused on the Bajorans and (to a lesser degree) the Cardassians. If there were more advanced story arcs it would made the first two seasons a bit more memorable though it introduces most of the primary and secondary characters. I still think the last two episodes of season 1 and the first three episodes of season 2 are DS9 at its best. Those five episodes were the first ones to really show what DS9 was capable of and they had a tension of their own all without the Dominion.

Don't skip the first two seasons, bits of it may seem slow or worse boring, but on repeated runs through those bits slowly grow on you and you will appreciate the good (and great) episodes even more.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

Just skip a few stinkers like "Move Along Home" and "If Wishes Were Horses" and you should be fine.

If you didn't watch seasons 1-2 you'd miss several great things: the introduction of Garak (GARAK!), the introduction of Winn, the Circle Trilogy, "Duet," etc.

Personally, I enjoyed Deep Space Nine both pre and post-Dominion War arc.

 

[NKemp3]

When people make lists of the worst DS9 episodes, I've noticed that a lot of the episodes come from the first two seasons.

So were these seasons a total waste? Do they matter at all--that is, does anything important or interesting really happen in them? Or are fans better off just watching (and re-watching!) the series from season 3 on?

No. In fact as far as I'm concerned (and as far as the opinions of those who were reviewing the series during its original run), season two was superior to season three. You can even go to Trek SOS and see that eps of season 2 have an overall higher average (voted by fans) than eps of season three. I've been saying for well over a decade that the three best years for DS9 were 2, 4 and 5. I still stand by that. Season three had some great eps (particularly Improbable Cause and The Die Is Cast), but the show was dealing with an infusion of new writers and the loss of the show's best writer at that time (Peter Allen Fields). Thus it took awhile before it found the right footing.

Some people these days claim season 3 as the beginning of DS9's strong run simply because the Defiant was introduced and the Dominion storyline began to grow. But in terms of good writing three is only better than season one, but lags behind the five other seasons of the show IMO.

 

[NKemp3]

The second half of the OP's question was "Why did the series change?" The official answer was that the producers listened to the "fans." They were afraid the Bajoran political stories and religion themes were not catching on with enough people to the point where the show would have lasted.

They added more Odo/Quark interaction, more Garak, a ship and enemies to fight/fear - The Klingons, The Maquis and The mysterious Dominion. They cut back on the Bajoran stories and the religious aspects. They added Worf because they wanted to utilize the Klingons more and adding Worf made sense. They also "softened" the Kira character just enough to not intimidate men who are afraid of tough-minded women.

I personally loved the story of Bajor and its religion. I loved Kira the freedom fighter being wary of the Federation on her turf. I wanted to see more of the Prophets and the Emissary at work, but what the heck, the TV graveyard is full of short-lived shows that I loved. If some of them had changed maybe they would have lived long enough to provide more great episodes.

In the end, it seems they made the right choice because adding the new elements kept the show viable and allowed them to do some damn good TV.

A lot of this is plain false starting with the important point that the first two seasons of DS9 generated much higher ratings than the latter seasons. Yes, much of this had to do with the fact that TNG was still on the air and often a leadin to DS9 in mnay markets but nonetheless the ratings WERE better early on.

Did many of the fans dislike the Bajor aspect? Yes. But most importantly Ira Steven Behr didn't seem to care for it as much and he took the show more in a direction of what he thought was best. The oDo/Quark interaction was always strong (since season one) and Garak's time had already blown up during season two. The Maquis was created in SEASON TWO and as done so just as a way of helping to introduce them for Star Trek:Voyager.

Worf and the Klingons were brought in for season four because DS9 was beginning to sink in the ratings during season three. TPTB thought they needed a shakeup. At the time many of us worried that the show would drop most of the Cardassian and Dominion storylines and make it more about Klingons. That's the way it was being portrayed in all the magazines (like TV Guide). Thankfully after season four we got less Klingons.

 

[NKemp3]

Short answer:

B&B went off to screw up Voyager and left DS9 alone.

One of the Bs never worked on DS9.