We are pregnant!

[SeerSGB]

Guys, just say my wife, girlfriend or that teen runaway is pregnant. there is no "we" unless you are Borg.

Once that goo enters her body, you lose ownership fellow.

Unless you gave her an STD.

Unless there's child support to be collected, that is.

I was going to add something about that but I have known women who didn't want the man to have anything to do(even money) with the child.

Some don't, true. Then there's others that just want to cash the fucking check and let the father have no say in the child's life. Now, to be honest, their are cases where cutting out the father is in the best interest of the child. But there is a very eat your cake and have it too, mindset to many times to the whole thing: You're a man, you don't get a say in the pregnancy...here's a baby, what's your bank account number.

Take abortion for an extreme example: What happens when you have a woman that wants an abortion and a father that wants to keep the baby? He gets no say (and yes, I do agree with a woman's right to choose). And then you flip: He doesn't want a child, wants nothing to do with the child, she wants to keep it and he gets no say in that either and gets told by the court he has to pony up a % of his check.

It's a very contradictory message that men get from some women and culture sometimes when it comes to pregnancy.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Thank you so much for mansplaining that so well for me, RJD. I really appreciate how well you, as a man, can tell me how I, as a woman should respond and feel. It's so helpful.

"Mansplaining." I'm sorry, Reverend, in all our past interactions I never knew you were like this. I won't bother to explain that nobody was telling anybody how they should feel, because you already know that; and I won't bother to make one of my peace, love, and understanding speeches, because I doubt if it would breach the high, gray walls.

My ex-husband would have said it if he could gain something from saying it. If there was something he was good at it was putting on a mask for the outside world. I had a hard convincing anyone that he was abusing me because he was so nice to, and in front of, other people.

You're kind of missing the point. Obviously I'm talking about somebody who is sincere about it.

Wait, we're pregnant is a euphemism? A euphemism for what exactly? What exactly does a man saying they're involved in the experience of being pregnant have to do with religion? And what has an older sibling got to do with pregnancy? And what does any of this have to do with We're pregnant being a euphemism needed because of religion?

To quote The Doctor "What? What? WHAT?"

scotpens is correct. "Expecting" is a euphemism.

Just try and do it NOW without a husband. Under 40? You're fucked.

Not that I know of, and I've been working in health care for almost thirty years.

All I can say that if, heavens willing, I managed to find someone who loves me enough to actually have a baby, there is no way on Earth I'm saying "we're pregnant."

Don't worry. You know how the political winds are. Next year it'll be in fashion.

What an utterly patronizing, ignorant statement. I can't think of any rational, reasonable basis that could possibly support a statement, from anyone (let alone a guy on an internet message board), which tells a woman that her marriage "would have been better ... if" ... without having full, complete knowledge of the situation. And even then, even if such complete knowledge was available, such an openly and in public (which is what this forum is) statement is likewise recklessly insensitive.

Also missing the point.

 

[SeerSGB]

I'm also getting a certain sense of man-hating or at least a belief that the sexes are in competition with one another from those who don't like it.

Yes, I'm sure it was their deep and abiding hatred of men that made them pursue relationships with said gender, thus resulting in the very pregnancies most of those who oppose the phrase in this thread went through, all so you can condescend to them and accuse them of malicious motives for daring to have a different opinion based on their personal experiences.

In other words, knock it off.

You make it sound as if bringing a child into the world is only challenging for the mother and for the father it's no more difficult than eating a chocolate chip cookie. Of course the father doesn't experience all of the physical stuff the mother does, but it's no walk in the park for him either. It's not easy for a man to watch the woman he loves go through all the things you describe and be powerless to do anything about it, and know that there's a possibility she could be gone forever because of it. It's the hardest and most emotionally draining thing I've ever done, and I've done it six times. The thing is, every time we started down that road, we were in it together. It was a partnership, with each of us giving all we could to the endeavor. We each had our roles: her role was the stuff you described; mine was holding her hand and supporting her through it all--being the strength and support she needed. I didn't just get her pregnant, tell her to let me know when the baby was ready to go to college, roll over and go back to sleep. No, I was there by her side every step of the way. I was there for the ultrasounds, all through every delivery and C-section and recovery. I was there when the AFP test came back positive and we had to wait for an agonizing week for more tests to find out whether our child was okay. I got her antacids when she needed them for heartburn. I was there holding her hand in the ER during her one miscarriage and comforted her (and I didn't get drugs to block my memory of it like she did). I took time off work to go to prenatal checkups with her or to watch the other kids so she could go. I was there and involved as any man worth his salt would be. Please don't discount the role fathers (should) play in bringing children into the world. If your husband wasn't there for you during your pregnancy, you have my sincerest sympathy.

No one was discounting the role fathers play in bringing children into the world and raising them; that was your overly defensive take on it. They were questioning the use of language that made it seem like they had an equal burden in the process of pregnancy and delivery and recovery.

If your wife is running a marathon, and you help her train, massage her aching muscles and feet, buy her new running clothes, help her practice breathing exercises, hand her water, give her words of encouragement, take her to the doctor if she's hurt or to make sure everything's okay, and then stand at the finish line, that's all great, and what you're supposed to do as a loving and supportive spouse. It doesn't mean you ran the marathon too.

Acknowledging that doesn't diminish your role or responsibility or importance in the relationship.



You sound like Bill O'Reilly with his reflexive complaints about progressives. Did you take a political survey of everyone who expressed an opinion here? The person who made the "pantsless" remark didn't sound progressive in the slightest, for instance. Nor should this be a political issue.

So there's no room for nuance between a pregnant woman or a woman who has given birth--who might have a slightly different perspective on the issue from you-- saying "you didn't carry the child or give birth, so don't try and claim equal ownership of that process" and one saying men have no role or importance in conceiving and raising a child whatsoever? If you hold one view you inevitably must hold the other?

Ah, so there are certain words and phrases you have issues with people using in regard to pregnancy too. How would you feel if your opinion on that was belittled and referred to as bitter, backward, "man-hating" (not by you), and cavalier? Especially if you had gone through pregnancy and birth yourself and were being lectured by someone who hadn't?



And that is the most typically condescending thing you've said to a woman this year. "Snap out of it," like it's some kind of hysterical outburst?

I take it back, THAT'S the most typically condescending thing you've said to a women this year. Wow.

Yeah, her emotionally and physically abusive husband would have been a total peach had he just been the type of guy to say "we're pregnant." Because using an odd turn of phrase solves all ills.

No, you politicized it with your conservative and progressive rant above. She's simply stating facts about the gender disparity in society and how she feels this phrase is a component of that disparity. You're entitled to disagree. You don't get to decide for everyone what the phrase means, however. It means something else to them because they have a different perspective on it from yours as women and in some cases mothers.

That is the biggest load of crap Miss Chicken!!! Husband's permission?!?!!!!!! WHAT FUCKTARDS

I bet when vasectomies suddenly became all the rage they didn't ask the wife's permission.

Weellllll...When they talk to my dad a couple years back (pushing 60, bad health) about getting it done (he didn't cause of some old macho bullshit in his mind) cause of reducing certain cancer risks and what have you, the doctor called my mother (pushing 60) in to consult on her "feelings" on the matter and whether or not she was okay with it and to let her know that this wasn't a reflection on her as a woman.

When I talked to my GP in 2004 (I was 28 then)--shortly after I got tagged with a MS (RR) diagnosis--they wanted to know if

1) their were marital problems and that's why I was asking for it to be done,

2) If I had okayed it with my wife and would I be willing to let the doctor meet with her beforehand to make sure we BOTH wanted it and weren't trying to deal with marriage issues by me getting a vasectomy.

I didn't do it cause insurance at the time. Since then, every doc I've spoke with about it brings up some variation of "And, how does your spouse feel about this?" or "you're still young, have you tried marriage counseling/if you do get divorced and remarried what if your new wife wants her kids of her own".

There's a vast difference between asking if you've spoken to your wife about it and asking how she feels about it, and being required to have your husband's signed permission in order to get the procedure done. No one's denying that it's a major decision that affects both parties, but it's a world of difference between that and denying someone control over the decision making process for their own body because they have to get their husband's permission first. That's messed up.

Actually one doc did tell me cause of my age and the fact that there wasn't any (are didn't appear to be) an marital problems to justify a 20 something wanting to get snipped that he wouldn't do it unless my wife agreed to it. That I was taking her reproductive choices.

You know, there are guys out there who are legitimately good people. They're kind and supportive and are interested in being good partners. They love their girlfriends/wives, and for them, hearing the news that they're going to have a baby is some of the happiest news they could ever hope to receive. They don't say "We're pregnant" because they're seeking ownership or looking to marginalize the woman's physical state. They say "We're pregnant" because they're genuinely excited to start a family, and even though the man might not technically be pregnant in the medical sense, they want to play as a big a role as they can. Sure, the woman has to carry the ball for 9 months, but the man still wants to be a supporting member of the team.

That's it.

 

[RJDiogenes]

You sound like Bill O'Reilly with his reflexive complaints about progressives. Did you take a political survey of everyone who expressed an opinion here? The person who made the "pantsless" remark didn't sound progressive in the slightest, for instance. Nor should this be a political issue.

But it obviously is a political issue for many, which is why it has become contentious. As far as I'm concerned, it's just about some juvenile TV star trying to look cool, but look at what the thread has turned in to.

So there's no room for nuance between a pregnant woman or a woman who has given birth--who might have a slightly different perspective on the issue from you-- saying "you didn't carry the child or give birth, so don't try and claim equal ownership of that process" and one saying men have no role or importance in conceiving and raising a child whatsoever? If you hold one view you inevitably must hold the other?

I'm saying there's no room for vitriol and turning a heartwarming message about family unity, one that Feminists have been striving to achieve for centuries, into a political tirade. Here's the message: If a guy says, "We're pregnant," the correct default response is "Aw, how nice, a he loves his wife and family and acknowledges his part in the process of pregnancy and childbirth." The incorrect response is "Male chauvinist pig! Stick a forceps up his ass and see how he likes it." Yes, there are probably still men out there who say it as a sign of ownership (although I imagine they would default to less "twee" slogans), but you deal with them on an individual basis as they actually happen.

Ah, so there are certain words and phrases you have issues with people using in regard to pregnancy too. How would you feel if your opinion on that was belittled and referred to as bitter, backward, "man-hating" (not by you), and cavalier? Especially if you had gone through pregnancy and birth yourself and were being lectured by someone who hadn't?

You should take note that I was not the one who imbued these terms with differing political baggage. I have no issues either way.

And that is the most typically condescending thing you've said to a woman this year. "Snap out of it," like it's some kind of hysterical outburst?

No, that's your typically negative reading of me telling someone that I'm sorry they live in such a negative miasma.

Yeah, her emotionally and physically abusive husband would have been a total peach had he just been the type of guy to say "we're pregnant." Because using an odd turn of phrase solves all ills.

Also missing the point. Probably deliberately. Did you really think anybody imbues the phrase "I'm pregnant" with magical powers?

No, you politicized it with your conservative and progressive rant above. She's simply stating facts about the gender disparity in society and how she feels this phrase is a component of that disparity. You're entitled to disagree. You don't get to decide for everyone what the phrase means, however. It means something else to them because they have a different perspective on it from yours as women and in some cases mothers.

Again, I did not politicize it. I am responding to the politicization of it. And I'm doing exactly what you said: Disagreeing, offering my perspective, and hoping she thinks about it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Not that I know of, and I've been working in health care for almost thirty years.

...and, scene.

 

[sojourner]

Yeah, her emotionally and physically abusive husband would have been a total peach had he just been the type of guy to say "we're pregnant." Because using an odd turn of phrase solves all ills.

Also missing the point. Probably deliberately. Did you really think anybody imbues the phrase "I'm pregnant" with magical powers?

I gotta ask then, what exactly was the point? Because the way you phrased your comment left little room for interpretation.

 

[Taylirious]

You know, there are guys out there who are legitimately good people.

It is like saying "everyone is nice".

Maybe.

 

[RoJoHen]

I'm just tired of people using their shitty personal experiences to generalize whole groups of people.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I'm just tired of people using their shitty personal experiences to generalize whole groups of people.

Except no one actually did that.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

You know, there are guys out there who are legitimately good people. They're kind and supportive and are interested in being good partners. They love their girlfriends/wives, and for them, hearing the news that they're going to have a baby is some of the happiest news they could ever hope to receive. They don't say "We're pregnant" because they're seeking ownership or looking to marginalize the woman's physical state. They say "We're pregnant" because they're genuinely excited to start a family, and even though the man might not technically be pregnant in the medical sense, they want to play as a big a role as they can. Sure, the woman has to carry the ball for 9 months, but the man still wants to be a supporting member of the team.

Not ALL men!

Of course you're right, most men aren't thinking in those terms, some men do. But this is the thing, for those men who are controlling, for those men who do believe that their experience is the one that matters, the use of language reinforces their view and normalises it. Much like the language around rape that makes people say "Those poor boys have had their lives destroyed" or the way that the victim is blamed for what they were wearing or for being mugged because they were using their phone.

Basically what I'm saying is people who don't think about what they're saying help shape the world without meaning to.

 

[RoJoHen]

And you're right, of course, but things like this are just so hard to make sweeping statements about. It's all about context -- who is saying it and how they are saying it.

I mean, what's worse? Saying "We're pregnant" or saying "She's having my baby." The latter seems far more controlling and "man-centric" than the former.

 

[sojourner]

How about, "she's having our baby"?

 

[RevdKathy]

And both are inaccurate. 'We' are not pregnant, 'she' is. Equally, 'she' is having 'our' baby, since the woman also has some genetic input as we've known since the middle ages.

"My partner is pregnant" is perfectly fine. As is "She's having a baby". At this point the man is taking it on trust that the offspring is his.

 

[SeerSGB]

And you're right, of course, but things like this are just so hard to make sweeping statements about. It's all about context -- who is saying it and how they are saying it.

I mean, what's worse? Saying "We're pregnant" or saying "She's having my baby." The latter seems far more controlling and "man-centric" than the former.

Agreed.

The later seems more like the guy is distancing himself. Trying to say "Her problem, not mine." And, in a way, a little bit "not my kid" sounding.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

And you're right, of course, but things like this are just so hard to make sweeping statements about. It's all about context -- who is saying it and how they are saying it.

I mean, what's worse? Saying "We're pregnant" or saying "She's having my baby." The latter seems far more controlling and "man-centric" than the former.

There are some people who make racially insensitive statements (not that I'm comparing this to those by any means) not out of maliciousness or genuine bigotry, but purely out of ignorance and not having been exposed to people of different backgrounds and experiences.

People understand that most men who say this probably don't mean anything bad by it, they're just offering their perspective on why it bothers them to hear men say this sometimes. And when it's someone who actually experienced going through pregnancy and birth, maybe it might be better to listen to what they have to say rather than reflexively and defensively taking it as an attack on men, or man-hating.

 

[RoJoHen]

How about, "she's having our baby"?

And both are inaccurate. 'We' are not pregnant, 'she' is. Equally, 'she' is having 'our' baby, since the woman also has some genetic input as we've known since the middle ages.

"My partner is pregnant" is perfectly fine. As is "She's having a baby". At this point the man is taking it on trust that the offspring is his.

But that's the point. There are so many ways of saying the exact same thing, and it all boils down to who is saying it and how it's being said. It's the way our language works.

What if it's the woman saying "We're pregnant?" Because I've heard that, too, probably more often than I've ever heard a man say it.

 

[RevdKathy]

People understand that most men who say this probably don't mean anything bad by it, they're just offering their perspective on why it bothers them to hear men say this sometimes. And when it's someone who actually experienced going through pregnancy and birth, maybe it might be better to listen to what they have to say rather than reflexively and defensively taking it as an attack on men, or man-hating.

This.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

What an utterly patronizing, ignorant statement. I can't think of any rational, reasonable basis that could possibly support a statement, from anyone (let alone a guy on an internet message board), which tells a woman that her marriage "would have been better ... if" ... without having full, complete knowledge of the situation. And even then, even if such complete knowledge was available, such an openly and in public (which is what this forum is) statement is likewise recklessly insensitive.

Also missing the point.

Then try explaining it without patronizing condescension directed toward a specific person. I'd say explain it without any kind of patronizing condescension, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Taylirious]

And both are inaccurate. 'We' are not pregnant, 'she' is. Equally, 'she' is having 'our' baby, since the woman also has some genetic input as we've known since the middle ages.

"My partner is pregnant" is perfectly fine. As is "She's having a baby". At this point the man is taking it on trust that the offspring is his.

My [blank] is pregnant. I am going to be a father(hopefully it is mine).

 

[Bob The Skutter]

How about, "she's having our baby"?

And both are inaccurate. 'We' are not pregnant, 'she' is. Equally, 'she' is having 'our' baby, since the woman also has some genetic input as we've known since the middle ages.

"My partner is pregnant" is perfectly fine. As is "She's having a baby". At this point the man is taking it on trust that the offspring is his.

But that's the point. There are so many ways of saying the exact same thing, and it all boils down to who is saying it and how it's being said. It's the way our language works.

What if it's the woman saying "We're pregnant?" Because I've heard that, too, probably more often than I've ever heard a man say it.

There are women who say "Slut" and "She deserved it" there are women who think that women deserve to be hit. Not that I'm saying it's the same thing, but what I am saying that all sorts of stuff can become normalised.

To be honest "we're pregnant" is something I've heard very rarely outside of American media, and more often than not it's in a comedy show, but it always strikes me as quite out of whack.