Waters of Mars Comment & Grading SPOILERS
- Thread starter WillsBabe
- Start date
Well, that was great. Not quite excellent, but better than just good (though I voted 'good').
The twist with the Doctor's power trip took me by surprise. It was really done well, I think. Born out of good intentions, but still verging on very dangerous territory - almost turning into the Master, sort of.
Just when you thought he had finally come to terms with the Time War, he goes all crazy over it. Though I must say that I agree with him, in a way. He has that power, he really is a 'lonely god'.
I liked how this episode mirrored the dramaturgy of Ten's first appearance in 'The Christmas Invasion', with the Doctor barging in toward the end to maniacally save the day, but this time it was frightening.
I would have preferred if he'd stayed on his power trip until the next episode instead of realising that he's been wrong. (Although I'm not sure he was that wrong, actually. If he'd taken them somewhere else to live out their lives, everything would have been fine and even so, at least two of the people he saved seemed to have had fulfilled lives.)
The twist with the Doctor's power trip took me by surprise. It was really done well, I think. Born out of good intentions, but still verging on very dangerous territory - almost turning into the Master, sort of.
Just when you thought he had finally come to terms with the Time War, he goes all crazy over it. Though I must say that I agree with him, in a way. He has that power, he really is a 'lonely god'.
I liked how this episode mirrored the dramaturgy of Ten's first appearance in 'The Christmas Invasion', with the Doctor barging in toward the end to maniacally save the day, but this time it was frightening.
I would have preferred if he'd stayed on his power trip until the next episode instead of realising that he's been wrong. (Although I'm not sure he was that wrong, actually. If he'd taken them somewhere else to live out their lives, everything would have been fine and even so, at least two of the people he saved seemed to have had fulfilled lives.)
Extra nice! It starts out like a typical RTD human lovefest, and suddenly becomes a terrfiying tale of fate and control. The moment Ten opened his mouth to say "Tough!" to Addy, all I heard was Colin Baker's "mad god" come to the forefront. Some powerful stuff, especially with how close to the vest Tennant carried the end moments. I'm excited for the final battle to come... 
If only they had some bikes.
That was brilliant. David's best performance of the specials so far. Lindsay Duncan was awesome as usual. I think i might go request Rome now again from the library so I can watch her as Servilla. Awesome stuff all around. The score was good as well, liked how the Doctor was arrogant as fuck at the end there and declared himself Time Lord Victorious! He really reminded me of the Master. Liked the "you're only gonna get three knocks" comment! Oh and a personal side note that I found amusing...the character Maggie Cain on her bio she has a birthday of December 28, 2028. My birthday is on December 28 so I got a kick out of that. Yeah it'd be helpful if they had some bikes too.
It could very well be. They said that they hired a big hollywood actor
http://gallifreynewsbase.blogspot.com/2009/11/hollywood-star-joins-cast-list-for.html
One thing I don't get - Andy Stone's biography says he was raised in a commune in Iowa, so why did he have a British accent? Why not have the actor fake an accent, or just have the commune be somewhere other than Iowa?
And in the spirit of nitpicking, fireballs on Mars? Shockwaves that knock the Doctor down? Those require more of an atmosphere than Mars has, not to mention that Mars' atmosphere is about 0.2% Oxygen, which could not sustain fire for as long as it was depicted. Also shouldn't The Doctor have bounced more when walking on the surface, since acceleration due to gravity is about 10% of what it is on Earth? How come Gadget didn't hit any rocks when he was zooming to the TARDIS? Spontaneous water generation breaks all kinds of rules, of course. Maybe there was some H2 and O2 handy, and the aliens were evidently adept at manipulating temperature (and likely pressure) based on their ability to maintain water in its liquid form while in the maintenance shaft.
Just kidding. I do occasionally think about the science on TV shows - it's usually a bad idea.
And in the spirit of nitpicking, fireballs on Mars? Shockwaves that knock the Doctor down? Those require more of an atmosphere than Mars has, not to mention that Mars' atmosphere is about 0.2% Oxygen, which could not sustain fire for as long as it was depicted. Also shouldn't The Doctor have bounced more when walking on the surface, since acceleration due to gravity is about 10% of what it is on Earth? How come Gadget didn't hit any rocks when he was zooming to the TARDIS? Spontaneous water generation breaks all kinds of rules, of course. Maybe there was some H2 and O2 handy, and the aliens were evidently adept at manipulating temperature (and likely pressure) based on their ability to maintain water in its liquid form while in the maintenance shaft.
Just kidding. I do occasionally think about the science on TV shows - it's usually a bad idea.
Alright, here we go! (WARNING, SPOILERS!)
Best Line:The Doctor, doctor, fun.
Runner-Up: They tell legends of Mars, long ago, a fine and noble race who built empires out of snow: The Ice Warriors.
I want to stop right here and talk about these two lines. To me, they represent what makes Doctor Who, in particular the new series, excellent. The first line celebrates the doctor, but keeps it simple and clever: his name is his rank, and his purpose is fun. My runner-up line is beautiful, softly spoken and intelligent, it embraces a goofy concept from two decades ago and strips away the camp, bringing it full force into the high quality 21st century. The name, Ice Warriors, and the idea of scaly green martians are both from another era (and some say another show entirely), and this episode could have easily ignored them and just done whatever the hell it wanted. Instead, it decided to to make the idea work. The way the Doctor poetically describes the ancient Martian race allows for the Ice Warriors to sound mythic instead of camp. It stops there too, not embracing fanwank, but moving along. Nothing more to say.
How would I rate this episode? This may surprise you, but I'd say uneventful. I know that the Timelord Victorious has really excited and made an impression upon a lot of people, but I consider this episode empty. It is too involved in itself; it reminds me of a thirteen-year-old obsessing over themselves in the mirror. Was the whole point this gripping psychological moment in the Doctor? Consider me ungripped. Where is the story? The adventure? Half of this episode is slow motion of the Doctor walking away while cardboard characters scream unconvincingly over his intercom. Why is this supposed to be so hard for the Doctor? There only half a dozen people on the base, and by the time he is heading for the TARDIS, half of them are already dead! I'd be more enthralled if Doctor Who had chosen a historical event that involved more people, and had bigger stakes for humanity: Hiroshima, the Holocaust, Slavery, Apartheid, Pompeii. Pompeii? Who said Pompeii? That brings us to...
Ridiculous Rehash: The Fires of Pompeii. The Doctor accidently arrives at an fixed point in history and tries desperately to escape, only to be delayed long enough to begin to care about the people he is leaving behind to die. We've done this already! Quite frankly, we've done it better!
Doctor, Whose Laws?: The best thing about Doctor Who in the new era is that it never bothered to explain the rules of time travel. "Trust me, I'm a Timelord. If I explained it, you wouldn't understand!" That was the generic answer from the Doctor whenever companions asked things like, "Why can't we just go back in the TARDIS to before all this happened?" I'll accept that. I prefer hearing "Magic door" to some long techno-babble nonsense. A lack of solid rules means you don't ever have to worry about contradicting yourself. Star Trek always got into trouble with this; they'd have all the rules layed out, and then constantly contradict themselves. Now apparently the Doctor can change some things but not others, only other things he discovers he can change, only not really. Huh!?!?
Look, don't tell me certain points are fixed and HAVE TO STAND, because the events of Waters of Mars would not have stood if bad guys had won in any number of prior episodes. Carrier Knights taking over Elizabethan England would have meant no Mars Base disaster. The Doctor claims the even the Darleks while attempting to destroy all of creation would stop and allow this person to live because her future is written in stone. No way. That just makes no sense.
The Worst: The robot. Fuck the robot. Fuck whoever thinks kids would like the robot. Fuck whoever thinks they should consider kids first while writing a Doctor Who. Why did we need the robot? Did the person who created the robot love Jar-Jar Binks? It looked like it was about to fall apart. The special effects team thought it would look cool to constantly be sparking, not that this makes any sense. The flames exploding out its backside as it reaches speeds of 15 miles per hour is ridiculous, and Wesley Crusher at the controls screaming and chewing the scenery as it does so was the worst part of the episode. I'm sorry, but if I am playing a video game, and the game goes haywire, my joystick does not start moving around freely. Watching Wesley-Wannabe scream wildly as he waggled his fingertips was simply painful to watch. Trail of flames? Get fucking real.
Short Attention Span Editing: The 700 flashes to the crew member date of deaths. This episode really had to beat home that everyone on the Mars Base dies, didn't it? Person after person after person, music echoing the shocking reveal that everyone already knew. I wonder why they didn't just make the word DEAD glow red and draw bright yellow circles around it. Talk about overkill! You know what? If they had never had those stupid cutaways to the crew bios, and just had the doctor stare silently at them, it would have been more powerful. We'd all have figured it out on our own, even children (yes, they do have brains) and when the Doctor finally tells whatshername that she dies on Mars, then it would have carried more weight.
Just what were those computer screen supposed to be, anyway? Wikipedia on the TARDIS?
Scoring the Score: 10% new music! Is it that hard to compose a new song? I really was sick of hearing the same scores from previous episodes. A debate arose on the boards recently about whether or not it was a good thing that a new composer was coming tot he show. Trust me, it is a VERY good thing.
360 Out of Right Field: Oh, alright, I get it. He's eeeeeevvvvviiiiiillllll! That sure happened fast. He walks away slowly, hearing their screams, and then returns in beam of light to save the day by doing absolutely nothing. Now he is a god, no God Himself! /cackles!
Where did this mood shift come from? Why did we need it? And why does the Doctor suddenly think his ten minutes of arrogance means he is going to die? Where is the connection?
Final Thoughts: The only real cringe worthy moment was when the Doctor hot-wired the robot and trails of flame shot out from its backside while Wes Crusher chewed the scenery. All in all, not that long. But the lack of cringe does not a good episode make. I really wish someone would explain to these folks that children loved this show when it was made for a more mature audience. They were scared by things that were intended to scare everyone. Now the show seems to aspire to the same level as Mighty Morphing Power Rangers. It is Walt Disney Presents: Doctor Who (for kids!). The show is marketed, mass-produced, and fantastic plastic. Five new episodes over the coarse of two years didn't help any, nor did learning Doc 10s replacement before even the first special aired.
I love David Tennant, and at first I did not ever want him to leave, but if means a fresh show-runner and (hopefully) renewed perspective on what this show is then so be it.
GRADE: C, flat.
Best Line:The Doctor, doctor, fun.
Runner-Up: They tell legends of Mars, long ago, a fine and noble race who built empires out of snow: The Ice Warriors.
I want to stop right here and talk about these two lines. To me, they represent what makes Doctor Who, in particular the new series, excellent. The first line celebrates the doctor, but keeps it simple and clever: his name is his rank, and his purpose is fun. My runner-up line is beautiful, softly spoken and intelligent, it embraces a goofy concept from two decades ago and strips away the camp, bringing it full force into the high quality 21st century. The name, Ice Warriors, and the idea of scaly green martians are both from another era (and some say another show entirely), and this episode could have easily ignored them and just done whatever the hell it wanted. Instead, it decided to to make the idea work. The way the Doctor poetically describes the ancient Martian race allows for the Ice Warriors to sound mythic instead of camp. It stops there too, not embracing fanwank, but moving along. Nothing more to say.
How would I rate this episode? This may surprise you, but I'd say uneventful. I know that the Timelord Victorious has really excited and made an impression upon a lot of people, but I consider this episode empty. It is too involved in itself; it reminds me of a thirteen-year-old obsessing over themselves in the mirror. Was the whole point this gripping psychological moment in the Doctor? Consider me ungripped. Where is the story? The adventure? Half of this episode is slow motion of the Doctor walking away while cardboard characters scream unconvincingly over his intercom. Why is this supposed to be so hard for the Doctor? There only half a dozen people on the base, and by the time he is heading for the TARDIS, half of them are already dead! I'd be more enthralled if Doctor Who had chosen a historical event that involved more people, and had bigger stakes for humanity: Hiroshima, the Holocaust, Slavery, Apartheid, Pompeii. Pompeii? Who said Pompeii? That brings us to...
Ridiculous Rehash: The Fires of Pompeii. The Doctor accidently arrives at an fixed point in history and tries desperately to escape, only to be delayed long enough to begin to care about the people he is leaving behind to die. We've done this already! Quite frankly, we've done it better!
Doctor, Whose Laws?: The best thing about Doctor Who in the new era is that it never bothered to explain the rules of time travel. "Trust me, I'm a Timelord. If I explained it, you wouldn't understand!" That was the generic answer from the Doctor whenever companions asked things like, "Why can't we just go back in the TARDIS to before all this happened?" I'll accept that. I prefer hearing "Magic door" to some long techno-babble nonsense. A lack of solid rules means you don't ever have to worry about contradicting yourself. Star Trek always got into trouble with this; they'd have all the rules layed out, and then constantly contradict themselves. Now apparently the Doctor can change some things but not others, only other things he discovers he can change, only not really. Huh!?!?
Look, don't tell me certain points are fixed and HAVE TO STAND, because the events of Waters of Mars would not have stood if bad guys had won in any number of prior episodes. Carrier Knights taking over Elizabethan England would have meant no Mars Base disaster. The Doctor claims the even the Darleks while attempting to destroy all of creation would stop and allow this person to live because her future is written in stone. No way. That just makes no sense.
The Worst: The robot. Fuck the robot. Fuck whoever thinks kids would like the robot. Fuck whoever thinks they should consider kids first while writing a Doctor Who. Why did we need the robot? Did the person who created the robot love Jar-Jar Binks? It looked like it was about to fall apart. The special effects team thought it would look cool to constantly be sparking, not that this makes any sense. The flames exploding out its backside as it reaches speeds of 15 miles per hour is ridiculous, and Wesley Crusher at the controls screaming and chewing the scenery as it does so was the worst part of the episode. I'm sorry, but if I am playing a video game, and the game goes haywire, my joystick does not start moving around freely. Watching Wesley-Wannabe scream wildly as he waggled his fingertips was simply painful to watch. Trail of flames? Get fucking real.
Short Attention Span Editing: The 700 flashes to the crew member date of deaths. This episode really had to beat home that everyone on the Mars Base dies, didn't it? Person after person after person, music echoing the shocking reveal that everyone already knew. I wonder why they didn't just make the word DEAD glow red and draw bright yellow circles around it. Talk about overkill! You know what? If they had never had those stupid cutaways to the crew bios, and just had the doctor stare silently at them, it would have been more powerful. We'd all have figured it out on our own, even children (yes, they do have brains) and when the Doctor finally tells whatshername that she dies on Mars, then it would have carried more weight.
Just what were those computer screen supposed to be, anyway? Wikipedia on the TARDIS?
Scoring the Score: 10% new music! Is it that hard to compose a new song? I really was sick of hearing the same scores from previous episodes. A debate arose on the boards recently about whether or not it was a good thing that a new composer was coming tot he show. Trust me, it is a VERY good thing.
360 Out of Right Field: Oh, alright, I get it. He's eeeeeevvvvviiiiiillllll! That sure happened fast. He walks away slowly, hearing their screams, and then returns in beam of light to save the day by doing absolutely nothing. Now he is a god, no God Himself! /cackles!
Where did this mood shift come from? Why did we need it? And why does the Doctor suddenly think his ten minutes of arrogance means he is going to die? Where is the connection?
Final Thoughts: The only real cringe worthy moment was when the Doctor hot-wired the robot and trails of flame shot out from its backside while Wes Crusher chewed the scenery. All in all, not that long. But the lack of cringe does not a good episode make. I really wish someone would explain to these folks that children loved this show when it was made for a more mature audience. They were scared by things that were intended to scare everyone. Now the show seems to aspire to the same level as Mighty Morphing Power Rangers. It is Walt Disney Presents: Doctor Who (for kids!). The show is marketed, mass-produced, and fantastic plastic. Five new episodes over the coarse of two years didn't help any, nor did learning Doc 10s replacement before even the first special aired.
I love David Tennant, and at first I did not ever want him to leave, but if means a fresh show-runner and (hopefully) renewed perspective on what this show is then so be it.
GRADE: C, flat.
I really liked it. I have to say that Time Lord Victorious Doctor really bothered me. He could have just taken them to some point in time where no one would know them and history would have assumed they died. But it was like he mocking time itself. I'm glad the vision of Ood Sigma knocked that out of him.
Also loved the Ice Warriors reference.
Also loved the Ice Warriors reference.
I voted 'Good'. It lost a few points for some dodgy science, the silliness with the rocket powered robot, and for not explaining just what was frozen beneath the ice.
So most of the score comes from the final 10 minutes. Props to the base captain, who in the end proved to be a truly brave, and heroic woman. My only quibble there is with how easily she believed the Doctors story. He could just have easily been an agent from a competing nation there with a good story and a genetically engineered virus sent to sabotage their operation.
But back to those final lovely/terrible ten minutes. Thinking back on it, one can almost wonder at how this hasn't happened sooner. 800 years of the must amazing luck, sometimes bordering on the miraculous, with the Doctor nearly always coming out on top. A religious person might be tempted to start believing they were 'blessed by God' if they were in his shoes (thats how mad prophets and dictators are born).
I think all the way back to Voyage of the Damned theres some sign the stress was getting to him. With his "I CAN DO ANYTHING!" comment. And in 'The Next Doctor', in hindsight, one wonders if Jackson Lake's getting the crowd to cheer the Doctor may have done more harm than good. Add to that the losses he's had to face recently (The Time Lords, the Master, Rose, River, then Donna), is it any wonder he hasn't finally gone over the edge?
Good lord, Christmas can't come soon enough!
So most of the score comes from the final 10 minutes. Props to the base captain, who in the end proved to be a truly brave, and heroic woman. My only quibble there is with how easily she believed the Doctors story. He could just have easily been an agent from a competing nation there with a good story and a genetically engineered virus sent to sabotage their operation.
But back to those final lovely/terrible ten minutes. Thinking back on it, one can almost wonder at how this hasn't happened sooner. 800 years of the must amazing luck, sometimes bordering on the miraculous, with the Doctor nearly always coming out on top. A religious person might be tempted to start believing they were 'blessed by God' if they were in his shoes (thats how mad prophets and dictators are born).
I think all the way back to Voyage of the Damned theres some sign the stress was getting to him. With his "I CAN DO ANYTHING!" comment. And in 'The Next Doctor', in hindsight, one wonders if Jackson Lake's getting the crowd to cheer the Doctor may have done more harm than good. Add to that the losses he's had to face recently (The Time Lords, the Master, Rose, River, then Donna), is it any wonder he hasn't finally gone over the edge?
Good lord, Christmas can't come soon enough!
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clearly the robot flew the TARDIS into the room and they all got in.
He told her the story about her and the Dalek, something only she and her daughter were supposed to know.
Checkmate
Commodore
You kind of missed the biggest one of all. Namely the whole "All right everyone, just say the Doctor's name at this exact time on this exact day, and through the power of Whatthefucktanium, he'll explode into an unstoppable God and save us all. Yay!"
Great story, and the Dark Doctor is an interesting direction for them to go in.
If you think about it, he probably did kill (or at least prevent from being created) one of his future regenerations so he could stay as ten, when he shunted the regeneration energy into his spare hand.
Most of the other Doctors took regeneration well, an end to their present form, but a chance at another, this Doctor wants to cling onto his own personality at the cost of his own future.
The darkness didnt arrive in last nights episode, its been building for a while now, just ask the Racknaross or the family of blood.
If you think about it, he probably did kill (or at least prevent from being created) one of his future regenerations so he could stay as ten, when he shunted the regeneration energy into his spare hand.
Most of the other Doctors took regeneration well, an end to their present form, but a chance at another, this Doctor wants to cling onto his own personality at the cost of his own future.
The darkness didnt arrive in last nights episode, its been building for a while now, just ask the Racknaross or the family of blood.
You could argue that the Doctor didn't want to regenerate because he was in the middle of saving the Earth and well the Universe so knowing how he suffers dodgy regenerations thought better to stay alive at any cost.
I would hope that the Doctor kind of cheating his death would have some consequences and that in the end he dies simply because of that and his body just says times up.
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