Waters of Mars Comment & Grading SPOILERS

[Starkers]

Bacl,

can;t say I agree with everything you've said but good call on the music score. They really could have made an effort rather than reusing so much.

I really am looking forward to seeing it again, but I think, so far and on the whole, the year of specials has been slightly, emphasis slightly, limp. And I really think they'd have been better going for a truncated series that ran togeather and led into Christmas, Torchwood CoE worked as a week long event tv, and I think Who could/should have done something similar.

I'm not trying to say I didn't enjoy Waters of Mars, but as with planet of the dead it's hard to really see what's special about it. It's a very good episode hanging alone in November for no real reason, at least PotD was obstensibly an Easter episode.

By the way, anyone wonder if the original plan was for WoM to air on Saturday when it would have been November 21st?

 

[Haggis and tatties]

I also loved how it seemed to show how timelords just like the DR can become like the master once they decide they can do anything they want without worrying about the consequences...that was a chilling realisation right there.

 

[ITL]

The main thing that bothers me about WoM is that the plot was unimportant - it only served as a catalyst for The Doctor going too far in the last ten minutes. And that mainly served as a teaser for the next special.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

My thoughts:

maybe changing a fixed event is how a Time Lock can be broken.
Imagine Time as an actual chain binding a chest representing the Time War. Each segment is a fixed point in Time and an impenetrable lock is used to keep the chain fixed and the chest tightly shut.
Now what happens when you break a chain segment, not the lock itself? It becomes useless because the chest can be opened regardless.
That might be what the Doctor did here without realizing it yet.

The oxygen/fire issue some here have: I know fire as we understand it needs oxygen, it's really a chemical reaction of two elements. I'm not an expert, but is there really no other element that produces a reaction similar to normal oxygen fire? Maybe not on Mars itself but present in teh shuttle perhaps?

I believe the Doctor's change is a direct result of his decision to refuse any more companions.
Davros was wrong. The Doctor doesn't create weapons when he takes them. They prevent him from becoming one himself.
Donna demonstrated that perfectly in her first appearance.
As soon as there's no real companion around all it needs is a crisis a little more hopeless than usual and Time Lord Victorious peaks out. This time almost fully emerging.
So as soon as he realizes this, it's when he changes his mind about companions who always grounded him.

 

[Cyke101]

I was afraid of a repeat of the Pompeii episode (they even reference it here), but damn, I'm trying to pinpoint the moment when the Doctor just cracked. Just utterly cracked. There are shades of the Valeyard in there! Heck, it might not even be in this episode, he might have lost it in one of the previous two specials.

This is what happens when there's no companion to keep him in check.

I could have done without the robot joyride. The coming deaths of the last two crewmates was really well done. The sheer arrogance of the Doctor leading to the captain's fate was itself worthy of a Children of Earth-style twist (or at least an Eccleston-story)... and to think, the Doctor was so jolly not too long ago in SJA! I'm loving this whole deconstruction of the Doctor.

One last note about the music: I have to agree with some others above. I actually thought the music here was quite special and unique to Who... until the Doctor came back sans helmet and the usual Gold fare came back in full trumpet. That totally removed me from what's supposed to be a heroic scene.

I'd give this special a 4/5, or a Good rather than an Excellent. There are some definite flaws, but it's wayyy better than the majority of S4. A vast improvement over Planet of the Dead, more thought provoking and sorrowful than the Next Doctor.

 

[Australis]

Hmm.

Hmm.

I really liked it. If there was a grade between good and excellent, that's what it would have got. I'm really going to have to watch it again.

Okay. The only reason I can think of that the TARDIS landed so far from the base was they later got to put in the robot bit. Why was that important? Not the foggiest.

Bowie Base One. I'm sure the Thin White Duke approves, from his hyperbaric chamber in 2059.

Damn, why does this guy not know what day it is and where he is? That's harking back to the time he set the TARDIS controls to random.

Lindsay Duncan is one of my favourite actresses.

A mention of Ice Warriors! Cool.

It is a bit generic 'Doctor on a space base' story. People say Impossible Planet, but it goes back to Ark In Space and beyond.

Does the Doctor have a Gallifreyan Wikipedia in his head? That changes as events in time go wibbly wobbly? Was that what we were seeing?

The Dark Doctor. Interesting idea. I could have stood another ep of that, and he only finds out about Adelaide's death later. OTOH, he could really have messed up things if he'd gone on like that.

Adelaide. Still a hero. When the Doctor explained her role in Earth's future, she knew it was wrong to change it, the consequences could have been huge. No normal person would want that responsibility. It was, for me, a jaw dropping moment.

Did his actions here change something? Maybe. Be interesting to find out.

The Master. Wow! What's going on with his head?!

Roll on December.

A final thought. I watched PotD last week. What jumped oput at me then was how intrusive the music was, really really intrusive. The music here was much better done.

More thoughts after I've watched it again.

ETA: Thingol, you made some interesting points.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I don't know if anyone else mentioned it, but when they show the flash of the article about the only two survivors of the colony there is an article about the Doctor under it. I guess in time, the Doctor becomes a mythical figure on Earth.

 

[Starkers]

Well the two survivors must have explained the Doctor's part in events. How else could they explain showing up on Earth moments after Bowie Base was nuked. Also I wonder how the article explained Adilade's suicide?

Actually would her shooting herself served to have inspire her grand daughter? Actually how did blowing up Bowie Base do likewise? The Doctor made it clear that all Earth knew was that Adilade detonated the nuclear charge, they never knew why? For all anyone on earth knew the captain just went nuts!

 

[jamestyler]

Does the Doctor have a Gallifreyan Wikipedia in his head? That changes as events in time go wibbly wobbly? Was that what we were seeing?

It looks like they were going for a BBC News look... but I'm surprised at the amount of comments I've read about that on various forums. He had to learn histry from somewhere, right? Why not the good old BBC

 

[StCoop]

The Worst: The robot. Fuck the robot. Fuck whoever thinks kids would like the robot. Fuck whoever thinks they should consider kids first while writing a Doctor Who.

(a) You rather missed the point that is was supposed to be annoying.

(b) Doctor Who is made for eight year olds. (A fact reiterated by Moffat only the other week.) If you can't deal with that watch something else instead.

 

[Starkers]

I liked the bit where the Doctor said he hated cute robots that people made to look like animals or people...though robot dogs were ok

 

[Deckerd]

I loved it. It was braw.

Judging from some of the comments here, some people seem to think this is supposed to be an adult programme rather than a family one. You should either rejig your expectations or stop watching it.

 

[Shazam!]

Judging from some of the comments here, some people seem to think this is supposed to be an adult programme rather than a family one. You should either rejig your expectations or stop watching it.

In fairness, if they have things like people shooting themselves in the head in front of their children for no other reason other than to prove a point, I can see why some people would be having problems defining the show.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Judging from some of the comments here, some people seem to think this is supposed to be an adult programme rather than a family one. You should either rejig your expectations or stop watching it.

In fairness, if they have things like people shooting themselves in the head in front of their children for no other reason other than to prove a point, I can see why some people would be having problems defining the show.

Who shot themselves in the head in front of their kids? Didn't happen in this episode.

 

[StCoop]

In fairness, if they have things like people shooting themselves in the head in front of their children for no other reason other than to prove a point, I can see why some people would be having problems defining the show.

It wasn't in front of her daughter/granddaughter, the house was empty.

And aren't people always saying that things shouldn't be "dumbed down" for children?

Two recent quotes from Moffat on the subject:

"If Doctor Who does not address kids then it’s not Doctor Who."

"Doctor Who is designed to reasonably terrify 8 year olds."

 

[Australis]

I wonder though, how do you explain the Dark Doctor to 8 yr olds?

 

[Bob The Skutter]

I wonder though, how do you explain the Dark Doctor to 8 yr olds?

Even my 11 year old niece was confused by my thinking he'd gone off the deep end. "He was just trying to help" was her take on it.

 

[wamdue]

interesting that the Doctor was wearing his blue suit, the same one worn by the other Doctor in Journeys End, and the Doctor behaves in a similar fashion to the other Doctor.

 

[Lonemagpie]

I wonder though, how do you explain the Dark Doctor to 8 yr olds?

"Like Anakin in Star Wars, but with *good" acting."

 

[Australis]

^ That's a harsh accuracy, sir!