WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

[Yassim]

It's a universe with a big blue naked man, you just accept that in that representation of reality, their actions are what a normal person could do with training. If they *are* super-powered, then the narrative falls to pieces because Dr. Manhattan would represent evolution not revolution...

Accept that the narrative of the movie might have fallen apart on more than one occasion.

I know Snyder doesn't worry about what's literally on screen when it comes to violence and people smashing things with their bare hands - he'd rather it look cool and give the feeling of uber-violence, rather than keep things real - but when the story leans heavily on the idea of what's possible and what's not, his bone-crunching granite-smashing hand-to-hand combat blurs the issues.

For the record, I thought Ozy's bullet catch was brilliant in the original (foreshadowed just enough, everyone's reactions making it more believable) but in the movie, it was glossed over like everyone was embarrassed by it.

 

[JacksonArcher]

I agree that Synder perhaps overstylized the violence and the action. I was expecting more of a gritty realism when it came to the violence and the representation of their "superpowers" or abilities and what we got was much more of a hyperrealistic approach. Which is fine, but I do agree it blurs the line between "normal people dressing up as superheroes" (besides Dr. Manhattan) to flat-out superheroes with super abilities.

 

[3D Master]

Catching a bullet is an old conjuring trick, nothing to do with Batman or comics. It goes back hundreds of years, and was particular popular in the victorian era. That's where it comes from in the comic. It is (within the comic universe) based on the potential of the human mind. The same reason why (according to Moore's notes) Adrian lives to 150.

An old conjuring trick?

In a trick, you don't actually catch a bullet, you just make it look like you do. This requires the help of either a person in the known, or a prepared gun. The only way you could do so when someone actually goes to shoot you, is if he missed and you had a bullet on you that you pulled out of your pocket.

But what's the point of the whole event/scene, (not to mention Veidt towards his adversaries), of faking out catching a bullet? There's no point toward the audience because they assumed he ACTUALLY caught the bullet, and his previous hero partners probably know already it's a trick.

So what's the point?

The only thing that's left is what the audience assumes; he indeed caught the bullet.

 

[Praetor]

Batman's never caught a bullet though.

There are characters in anime that have trained themselves so much they can catch bullets. However, these are characters that have learned to use their life force/chi/ki, and have through that lifted themselves up to super human levels. They would indeed have more than just their physical, flesh and blood bodies to do the things with.

Maybe Veidt did the same? Hence him catching bullets and is so far out of the league of the rest of the "ordinary" super heroes?

But would he still count as a 'powerless' superhero?

Catching a bullet is an old conjuring trick, nothing to do with Batman or comics. It goes back hundreds of years, and was particular popular in the victorian era. That's where it comes from in the comic.

I kinda have to agree with 3DMaster. If it's just been a 'trick' in the past, how would Adrian actually do it?

And my comparison to Batman was based on how many people perceive that he achieves feats that 'mortal' men would not be able to because of how well he's trained himself, and therefore people conclude he must have some form of power.

It is (within the comic universe) based on the potential of the human mind. The same reason why (according to Moore's notes) Adrian lives to 150.

Now mind over matter makes sense, if that's how the old 'tricks' were done, and isn't far off from what 3DMaster suggested regarding chi. And Adrian is supposed to live to 150? That's interesting. I didn't know that. Where can one find these notes?

If they *are* super-powered, then the narrative falls to pieces because Dr. Manhattan would represent evolution not revolution...

Exactly.

 

[Gojirob]

I agree that Synder perhaps overstylized the violence and the action. I was expecting more of a gritty realism when it came to the violence and the representation of their "superpowers" or abilities and what we got was much more of a hyperrealistic approach. Which is fine, but I do agree it blurs the line between "normal people dressing up as superheroes" (besides Dr. Manhattan) to flat-out superheroes with super abilities.

Again, I feel that Moore himself helped set this problem up, likely unwittingly. Their sometimes tremendous emotional baggage aside, these are physically intact people, despite spending a decade or more fighting people who would kill them as soon as look at them. Comedian, despite decades of Black Ops work, really only had one major scar. Did Laurie have an artificial foot? (Not that Jon couldn't have fixed that). Did Dan complain about his glass eye? Other than hygiene, was Rorschach, a man who lived on extremely salty canned food, in anything but excellent shape? I think this may be the one area where Moore failed to think things through : In order to live the lives he wrote of, these people would need to be very, very good just to avoid being like Bruce Wayne in Kingdom Come and Batman Beyond. While I don't want to go into pointless speculation, maybe Adrian developed a form of advanced martial arts that he only revealed to his seeming friends. Maybe he wanted them alive and intact for some odd reason, though why escapes me.

As to Adrian living to 150, I'll lay odds every minute was living hell, particularly in the world of the novel, where he seemed to be already affected by the psychic nightmares his monster unleashed. He'd probably live to see his deception slowly unravel.

 

[Ethros]

btw, maybe a silly question, but how does Rorschach see with his mask on?

 

[DarthPipes]

For the record, I thought Ozy's bullet catch was brilliant in the original (foreshadowed just enough, everyone's reactions making it more believable) but in the movie, it was glossed over like everyone was embarrassed by it.

I always liked that look he gave Night Owl when Dan asked if he could really catch a bullet.

 

[CommodoreKong]

I know in the comic he says something like "I didn't know if that would actually work" when catching the bullet but I can't remember if he says that in the movie.

 

[Yassim]

In my mind, Ozy didn't really "catch" the bullet. It was more a case of making sure to get shot in the hand.

 

[Praetor]

That suit/armor might have helped, too. And for what it's worth, he bled.

 

[3D Master]

In my mind, Ozy didn't really "catch" the bullet. It was more a case of making sure to get shot in the hand.

If he got shot in the hand, there would be a hole in the hand, and bullet would be lying somewhere beyond.

He indeed caught the bullet.

 

[dkehler]

In my mind, Ozy didn't really "catch" the bullet. It was more a case of making sure to get shot in the hand.

If he got shot in the hand, there would be a hole in the hand, and bullet would be lying somewhere beyond.

He indeed caught the bullet.

What if he had some kind of bullet proof material over his palm? It looked to me like he might have had exactly that in the movie.

 

[Praetor]

In my mind, Ozy didn't really "catch" the bullet. It was more a case of making sure to get shot in the hand.

If he got shot in the hand, there would be a hole in the hand, and bullet would be lying somewhere beyond.

He indeed caught the bullet.

What if he had some kind of bullet proof material over his palm? It looked to me like he might have had exactly that in the movie.

Ahem:

That suit/armor might have helped, too. And for what it's worth, he bled.

 

[dkehler]

If he got shot in the hand, there would be a hole in the hand, and bullet would be lying somewhere beyond.

He indeed caught the bullet.

What if he had some kind of bullet proof material over his palm? It looked to me like he might have had exactly that in the movie.

Ahem:

That suit/armor might have helped, too. And for what it's worth, he bled.

Yes, just reiterating your point, good sir.

 

[JoeZhang]

Yeah, the bullet is stuck in his hand, we see him pull it out.

 

[3D Master]

In my mind, Ozy didn't really "catch" the bullet. It was more a case of making sure to get shot in the hand.

If he got shot in the hand, there would be a hole in the hand, and bullet would be lying somewhere beyond.

He indeed caught the bullet.

What if he had some kind of bullet proof material over his palm? It looked to me like he might have had exactly that in the movie.

Then:

a. The impact would still bruise his hand beyond recognition.

and;

b. The bullet would most likely be lying on the floor; a glove is thin, so it can't be like a kevlar vest that is thick enough to slow the bullet down and capture it in its threads; it'd bounce of and fall to the floor instead.

He caught the bullet.

In my mind, Ozy didn't really "catch" the bullet. It was more a case of making sure to get shot in the hand.

If he got shot in the hand, there would be a hole in the hand, and bullet would be lying somewhere beyond.

He indeed caught the bullet.

What if he had some kind of bullet proof material over his palm? It looked to me like he might have had exactly that in the movie.

Then:

a. The impact would still bruise his hand beyond recognition.

and;

b. The bullet would most likely be lying on the floor; a glove is thin, so it can't be like a kevlar vest that is thick enough to slow the bullet down and capture it in its threads; it'd bounce of and fall to the floor instead.

He caught the bullet.

That suit/armor might have helped, too. And for what it's worth, he bled.

I didn't see any bleeding.

 

[dkehler]

^ It is conceivable that Dr. Manhattan or Adrian himself has come up with a material that is both thin enough to wear on his hand yet be capable of stopping a bullet.

Also, it looked like there was blood to me.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

btw, maybe a silly question, but how does Rorschach see with his mask on?

It's probably like the eyes in the Father Death mask from SCREAM, you can see through the micro mesh (?) quite well.

Now, the ink blots changing shape...that's wacky.

 

[wamdue]

finally seen this movie, was quite dark, very dark, which is good, im wondering how the comic book ended, because the ending was very upbeat for the movie, and Doctor Manhatten assessment of man king.

Which is fine, but I do agree it blurs the line between "normal people dressing up as superheroes" (besides Dr. Manhattan) to flat-out superheroes with super abilities.

ill agree with that as well.

I will say I assumed there was something about the glove that meant he was able to catch the bullet without too much being done

 

[wamdue]

side note is it just me or did the "Silk Spectre" remind anyone else of the Margot Kidder Lois Lane?