Wasn't Odo a collaborator?

[Kor]

This is a nuanced issue, just like with nations that became independent from a colonial power in real life. Consider, for example, the scramble to establish and legitimize political and military power in the southern part of Korea (at first under US oversight) after independence from Japan, with considerable debate along political lines over whether to include or exclude former collaborators: https://www.ekoreajournal.net/issue/view_pop.htm?Idx=3215

Under Cardassian rule of Bajor, there were undoubtedly various degrees of collaboration or cooperation with the Cardassian authorities. And during the Cardassian rule, collaborating or cooperating in some way with the Cardassian government or military was probably the only path to upward social mobility. Then, when the Cardassians left, such Bajorans were probably the only ones who had the education and experience needed for the new government to keep the infrastructure running smoothly on a practical level, along with whomever had managed to get off-world during the occupation and get patronage from some other powers.

And somebody who maintained security working as a police constable during Cardassian rule, or a Bajoran who worked his way up to a a desk job as a bureaucrat in the local Cardassian administrator's office, was probably much different from someone who somehow achieved high status in the Cardassian administration by actively seeking out and betraying resistance members, or otherwise repressing and brutalizing his fellow countrymen. Undoubtedly, there would have been a series of tribunals that separated Bajorans who were "just doing their job" from those deemed culpable in atrocities against the Bajoran people. And, of course, some may have slipped by, such as smooth-talking opportunists who shrewdly changed their allegiances when they saw that the tide was turning.

Kor

 

[Capn Nick]

I always think of Odo as being amoral. Not immoral, but not particularly attached to the human concept of right and wrong. He likes rules and orders but he seldom takes action, in my opinion, based on abstract notions of loyalty. That's what makes his relationship with Kira and Quark so interesting. The only two people with whom he seems to have a connection which sometimes interferes with his stark and direct view of what is acceptable. Over the show he makes other personal connections (Garak) that seem to effect him. That's why I think he's a great character, but I don't really like him at all. He pretty much abandons all his convictions against the dominion when they occupy the station. He isn't swayed into action because of any concept of loyalty or the brutality of the Dominion, but by his love for Kira. I don't know, that's just how I always see him. A brilliant take on an alien life form who has adopted humanoid morality but to whom it isn't imperative. But, I mean, he isn't ever really partisan.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Odo's morals derive from principles of order and justice, they aren't influenced by emotion (Except in the case of Kira) like they are for most humans. Toward the end of the series he seems to develop an acceptance of the disorderliness of humans and a more intrinsic belief in the value of life which is what he attempts to share with the Link at the end.

 

[Capn Nick]

Odo's morals derive from principles of order and justice, they aren't influenced by emotion (Except in the case of Kira) like they are for most humans. Toward the end of the series he seems to develop an acceptance of the disorderliness of humans and a more intrinsic belief in the value of life which is what he attempts to share with the Link at the end.

I mostly very much agree, but I'm not sure that I would say non-emotional. He is ultra reactionary about perceived slights and is pretty touchy and insecure often (which are emotional responses). When Eddington comes on board or when he loses his shape shifting abilities. I do agree though that he develops more empathy for disorderliness over time.

 

[Red Shirt]

If you watch the DS9 episode Necessary Evil, it offers a great background story of Odo's past during the Occupation.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I happened to watch Shadowplay today and Kira referred to Quark as a collaborator.

I think the only reason Odo isn't considered a collaborator is that people have nicer stories to tell about him than Quark.

Odo is definitely emotional and prideful, I'm just saying is emotions don't influence his sense of right and wrong. Whereas a human's sense of morality will usually take the side of the person they identify with more, Odo's won't, with the exception of Kira.

 

[Paradise City]

Odo can be a very to harsh character. And he's often inching for martial law only to be rebuffed by either Sisko or Kira. He doesn't like Cardassian justice but he does praise Cardassian approaches to public order issues on more than one occasion in a way that bewilders Kira. Realistically such types are not regarded as neutral, bipartisan figures but are very polarising types who'd probably face a stint in the slammer if they had the misfortune of serving the losing side. Odo and Quark should be bunk mates in some Bajoran labour camp if you to pursue their characterisations to an exacting degree.

My sole point is that Odo's backstory is a little implausible and a little incoherent. Odo's abilitIes are somewhat incoherent as well IMO but that's an issue for a different thread. I do accept the writers intent that he's a sincere and bipartisan figure that won the respect of both sides with his rigorous sense of justice and of course he's one of the strongest characters within a very strong acting ensemble.

 

[diankra]

It's made pretty clear that Cardassians and Bajorans both saw Odo as neutral.
Dukat employed him as part of his 'kinder gentler' occupation: rather than just follow policy by executing so many Bajorans if a Cardassian died, he'd settle for just the culprit Odo found if it was a normal murder rather than a resistance strike.
Odo undoubtedly handed over guilty individuals for execution, and when he decided it was resistance Dukat would have gone ahead with reprisal executions of innocents (as in Times Past). So yes, he's a collaborator who saved a few but has blood on his hands. So is Quark. And...
Secret Army is a very good series to watch for the moral ambiguities between resistance and collaboration during an occupation.

 

[somebuddyX]

Necessary Evil suggests Odo has a choice in becoming Dukat's investigator but if he doesn't do it the next guy will just kill a bunch of civilians. Dukat also says at this point that Odo is already trusted by Bajorans by being impartial when dealing with their own feuds. And so once he was chief of security and kept meting out fair punishment to everyone I think he garnered a good reputation. Once the Occupation ended and everyone was too busy sorting out government business, he might've had some interview with someone from Bajoran Security but Major Kira probably just vouched for him and they got on with business.

 

[Red Shirt]

Necessary Evil suggests Odo has a choice in becoming Dukat's investigator but if he doesn't do it the next guy will just kill a bunch of civilians. Dukat also says at this point that Odo is already trusted by Bajorans by being impartial when dealing with their own feuds. And so once he was chief of security and kept meting out fair punishment to everyone I think he garnered a good reputation. Once the Occupation ended and everyone was too busy sorting out government business, he might've had some interview with someone from Bajoran Security but Major Kira probably just vouched for him and they got on with business.

I agree with your assessment. Dukat chose Odo as a smokescreen so Dukat could step back protecting his Bajoran collaborators hoping Odo would find a scapegoat. Basically Odo was manipulated knowing full well Dukat would probably arbitrarily choose some Bajorans at random for execution.

I think Odo knew he was walking a tightrope. Dukat was using him and Odo was using his position to shield Bajorans as best he could. While the Cardassian organizational set-up seemed to appeal to Odo's sense of shapeshifter order in some way, the injustice of Cardassian brutality and summary executions repulsed him.

 

[Griffeytrek]

I think the more common take on Odo, by at least the Bajoran provisional government was that he was a reasonably neutral third party and an effective resource. He was part of the glue needed to keep the society running.

Also it would not be outside the bounds to think Odo had some backing from Starfleet as they were advising the provisional government. By that I don't mean Odo personally. Rather experienced Starfleet diplomats and Leadership would be advising the Bajoran not to stage a purge. Rather to leave in place as much of the civic infrastructure so long as it was not directly tied to or guilty of atrocities. People needed jobs, even under Cardassian occupation. In Odo's case the suggestion would be to maintain any fair minded Law Enforcement, as forming the new Bajoran force around existing and experienced personnel is far easier, and far safer than purging the old force and doing it from scratch. (Or as we like to call option 2, the Bush Doctrine) you get rid of the leadership and high level command. You build the new force around the local line officers and managers.

 

[Red Shirt]

I think the more common take on Odo, by at least the Bajoran provisional government was that he was a reasonably neutral third party and an effective resource. He was part of the glue needed to keep the society running.

Also it would not be outside the bounds to think Odo had some backing from Starfleet as they were advising the provisional government. By that I don't mean Odo personally. Rather experienced Starfleet diplomats and Leadership would be advising the Bajoran not to stage a purge. Rather to leave in place as much of the civic infrastructure so long as it was not directly tied to or guilty of atrocities. People needed jobs, even under Cardassian occupation. In Odo's case the suggestion would be to maintain any fair minded Law Enforcement, as forming the new Bajoran force around existing and experienced personnel is far easier, and far safer than purging the old force and doing it from scratch. (Or as we like to call option 2, the Bush Doctrine) you get rid of the leadership and high level command. You build the new force around the local line officers and managers.

I think you hit the nail on the head describing Odo as a neutral third party between the Bajorans and the Cardassians. IMO, Odo earned the respect of both peoples during the occupation because he served his own moral code of justice setting aside biased prejudice.

Odo managed to avoid being executed by the Cardassians and had the provisional government okay his position after the occupation. No small feat considering the circumstances.

 

[borgboy]

There's no doubt that Odo was more fair to the Bajorans than any other Cardassian appointed constable would be, but I still see him as a collaborator. He was upholding the law yes - Cardassian law that was stacked against the Bajorans. Yes, Odo protected some resistance members, but he had to have arrested many Bajorans who were what we would consider morally in the right. Despite Odo's fairness I still always found it strange that the Bajorans were that ok with him keeping the same position with them that he held during the Occupation.
That Kira considers Quark a collaborator and not Odo seems pretty strange to me. Sure, she had first hand experience of Odo's fairness, but Odo held a position of authority under the Cardassians while Quark was just serving drinks. And while he made a profit Quark also aided the resistance thru getting goods they needed to them thru the black market.

 

[trekyourself]

I agree with it being odd that most bajorans are ok with odo still being in charge of security after working with the cardassians so closely during the occupation. I see why they would trust him, but also why they wouldn't. Bit of a grey area. But as for Kira being in love with him? It may not make sense, but as anyone who's ever been in love can attest too, it rarely does. The least logical choice of partners is often who you fall for. The heart wants what it wants, and there's no stopping it.

 

[borgboy]

I agree love is unpredictable, but I still find it a little unbelievable that after years of not seeing Odo that way that out of the blue Kira just falls in love with him. It didn't feel organic to me.

 

[diankra]

It takes five years of working together post-occupation before Kira and Odo get together. That's a lot of time for experience to soften any issues she might still have had from the old days.
It's her dislike of Quark that's more tricky if she knows about how helped the Bajorans within his own principles; transference? Subconsciously she knows she ought to be harsher on Odo, so she takes it out on Quark?

 

[borgboy]

I just didn't feel there was a natural progression in Kira and Odo's relationship. She only thought of him as a friend for years, was uncomfortable when faced with knowing he was in love with her, and then it was like someone flicked a switch and she just fell in love.
Kira's dislike of Quark is unreasonable at times. She knows he helped the resistance thru the black market. Yes, he made a profit, but I always had the impression the profit he made wasn't really worth the risk and that Quark was acting on humanitarian motives even if he'd never admit it to himself. Kira knows that Quark worked against the Cardassians in other ways, such as helping his Cardassian girlfriend escape them.
It does seem like Kira gives Odo a pass for his collaboration and is harsh with Quark beyond what I think he deserves.

 

[apollo1984]

Necessary Evil suggests Odo has a choice in becoming Dukat's investigator but if he doesn't do it the next guy will just kill a bunch of civilians. Dukat also says at this point that Odo is already trusted by Bajorans by being impartial when dealing with their own feuds. And so once he was chief of security and kept meting out fair punishment to everyone I think he garnered a good reputation. Once the Occupation ended and everyone was too busy sorting out government business, he might've had some interview with someone from Bajoran Security but Major Kira probably just vouched for him and they got on with business.

I agree with this assessment, he already had a good standing with the Bajoran's before coming Chief of Security and was exactly as was described seen as being impartial to both sides. We have only seen a few little bits of Odo's time working for the Cardassian's but I would assume that while he continued to work for the them he also continued to be fair when it came to granting fair punishment and that that good standing allowed him to continue his role when the Cardassian's left he was still seen as impartial.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Is it possible that Kira asked for Odo to be retained, as he knew the ins and outs of the station and Kira trusted him?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

We have to remember that any Cardassian security of legal officer is more interested in the comforting appearance of justice than real justice. Tribunal confirms this. Bajorans knew that if they were accused of a crime, it didn't matter if they were guilty or not, they were dead.

The only exception was if Odo was the investigator.