Was there a need for an alternate timeline?

[Greg Cox]

Sorry, but TOS was mid 20th Century Human behavior masquerading as the 23rd century. It was a commentary on then current events not a prediction/blueprint of the future.

ST09 is no "dumber" than TOS. It's in keeping with Gene's "vision". Just not his post TOS vision. TOS was an action adventure show. It had fights and explosions. It's characters had doubts and on occasion did the wrong thing. They disagreed with each other. They kidded each other.

Bingo. People keep trying to apply TNG standards to a movie based on TOS, which is kinda missing the point.

As I've written before, the universe of TOS was hardly the pristine, highly-evolved utopia some people want to remember it as. It was much more rough-and-tumble than that, with flawed, imperfect characters.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

Without those imperfections, how can any stories be honest in exploring the human condition?

 

[Greg Cox]

I have always argued that Trek09 erases the previous time line.

The writers of the movie have said that it doesn't. They said, "Think Parallels [TNG episode]."

When in doubt, listen to the writers!

 

[Nerys Myk]

[Mel Brooks]They out rank you![/Mel Brooks]

 

[Set Harth]

Sorry, but TOS was mid 20th Century Human behavior masquerading as the 23rd century. It was a commentary on then current events not a prediction/blueprint of the future.

I find that most SF is like that.

Whatever our lives might have been, if the time continuum was disrupted...
our destinies have changed.

And this:

Going back in time you changed all our lives.

And this:

The contrary, Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the USS Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents, that cannot be anticipated by either party.

An alternate reality."

Yeah, their lives and destinies have changed - because they're in a new timeline. Nothing in the above indicates that the prime timeline was changed or no longer exists.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

The point is that there's noting in the movie itself that says that the prime universe still exists. We didn't see it after Spock and Nero entered the black hole. There's comments in numerous parts about how things have changed. It can be taken either way. Author intent is good for getting background on a particular scene but it doesn't override what actually makes it to the screen.

It may not exist. It may exist. At this point we just don't know for sure. Neither viewpoint is wrong based on what was in the movie.

Very well stated and I agree.

I just hope the new movie mentions something about this little debate and settles the argument.

God, I hope not! The general populace won't give a damn and it will add nothing to the story. Referencing a different reality if the film is not about different realities is, imo, a waste of time and will just cause confusion and detract from the plot.

As for the non-general populace (i.e. us fans), the writers have confirmed that the Prime Universe still exists, haven't they? Word of God. See, problem solved.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I have my prime universe novels. They're still putting out new TNG, DS9 and Voyager adventures. If the new film was supposed to erase that timeline from existence, they wouldn't be allowed to.

If none of you want to pick up a book and read for yourselves... I guess you're just gonna have to worry about it forever and ever.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Welcome to KingDaniel's video presentation on timelines
[YT]www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzUEu7Gb7Cg[/YT]
[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMK0qLVt0UU[/YT]
And a little something from Stargate Atlantis that sums it up nicely:
[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQjZ2FkXMhM[/YT]

I also recommend the Trek novel Department of Temporal Investigations: Watching the Clock, which brilliantly explains how some time travel methods overwrite the existing continuity and how others split off into parallel realities - and makes it sound perfectly reasonable amd believable. And is an excellent read besides.

 

[Gojira]

I have always argued that Trek09 erases the previous time line.

The writers of the movie have said that it doesn't. They said, "Think Parallels [TNG episode]."

When in doubt, listen to the writers!

Yup, that is what I have chosen to do. Plus, I like to think that the Original timeline is still out there somewhere.

 

[Greg Cox]

I just hope the new movie mentions something about this little debate and settles the argument.

God, I hope not! The general populace won't give a damn and it will add nothing to the story. Referencing a different reality if the film is not about different realities is, imo, a waste of time and will just cause confusion and detract from the plot. .

Agreed. The point of the next movie is not to resolve arcane internet debates about the metaphysics of imaginary universes. On a practical level, we're never going to see the Prime Universe onscreen again, so why waste time talking about it?

Time to move on.

 

[Gojira]

I just hope the new movie mentions something about this little debate and settles the argument.

God, I hope not! The general populace won't give a damn and it will add nothing to the story. Referencing a different reality if the film is not about different realities is, imo, a waste of time and will just cause confusion and detract from the plot. .

Agreed. The point of the next movie is not to resolve arcane internet debates about the metaphysics of imaginary universes. On a practical level, we're never going to see the Prime Universe onscreen again, so why waste time talking about it?

Time to move on.

I have moved on. I have accepted the writers intent that this is a new Universe. I am fine with that. Just because I have a little "it would be nice" thinking along those lines doesn't mean I haven't moved on.

I hope this doesn't come across as being defensive...I don't feel defensive. Believe me I am not the type of fan that lets these types of thinks get my knickers in a twist.

 

[Greg Cox]

Don't worry. That wasn't directed at you personally. I'm just kinda amazed that, three years later, we're still debating this stuff!

 

[Gojira]

Don't worry. That wasn't directed at you personally. I'm just kinda amazed that, three years later, we're still debating this stuff!

I understand that. I too was a bit surprised to see another thread on this issue after not seeing one in a long while.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The writers of the movie have said that it doesn't. They said, "Think Parallels [TNG episode]."

When in doubt, listen to the writers!

Yup, that is what I have chosen to do. Plus, I like to think that the Original timeline is still out there somewhere.

Not somewhere, but bookstores, libraries and Amazon.com.

 

[Sindatur]

Sorry, but TOS was mid 20th Century Human behavior masquerading as the 23rd century. It was a commentary on then current events not a prediction/blueprint of the future.

ST09 is no "dumber" than TOS. It's in keeping with Gene's "vision". Just not his post TOS vision. TOS was an action adventure show. It had fights and explosions. It's characters had doubts and on occasion did the wrong thing. They disagreed with each other. They kidded each other.

Bingo. People keep trying to apply TNG standards to a movie based on TOS, which is kinda missing the point.

As I've written before, the universe of TOS was hardly the pristine, highly-evolved utopia some people want to remember it as. It was much more rough-and-tumble than that, with flawed, imperfect characters.

And even Captain Janeway reminded us of this with her comment about how Kirk would've been drummed out of Starfleet of her day"

 

[Gojira]

When in doubt, listen to the writers!

Yup, that is what I have chosen to do. Plus, I like to think that the Original timeline is still out there somewhere.

Not somewhere, but bookstores, libraries and Amazon.com.

Yup, that is true. Anytime I want to revisit the old time line/universe all I have to do is pull a DVD down from my shelf.

I am watching "Yesterday's Enterprise" as I type this!

 

[Greg Cox]

Hell, I'm working on a new TOS novel right now!

 

[Nerys Myk]

Hell, I'm working on a new TOS novel right now!

 

[Gojira]

Hell, I'm working on a new TOS novel right now!

I wish this place had a "like" button!

 

[M'Sharak]

Hell, I'm working on a new TOS novel right now!

I wish this place had a "like" button!

Well, clicking on it won't actually register, but...