Was there a need for an alternate timeline?

[CommanderRaytas]

The Dyson Sphere was TOTALLY wasted in Next Gen. There's potential for an entire TV series set in and around that thing.

I completely agree. A Dyson Sphere is pretty much an alternative universe all on its own! What's more they barely knocked on the front door. Which will need fixing of course, before the Vulcan refugees can move in.

That is something I wouldn't mind seeing. Hell they can pick up old elements if they want, but the entire point of the new reality is that anything can happen, now. Make space exploration be wondrous, and don't simply rehash what has already been done to death. Surprise us.

However if they do pick up old elements, make them seem new to us. If well done, I'll accept anything, even Khan...although in his case, they would have to do a major workover, since that story has been presented to us a number of times, and I've kind of had enough of it by now.

 

[UFO]

^ I agree with where you are coming from. It will be interesting to see if the writers do. I just feel the main reason they did the alt-U thing is so they could "believably" use characters that are intended to be ten years younger than the original TOS crew. The canon fire-break was perhaps secondary and originality a somewhat lower priority.

 

[Desert Kris]

Four post-STXI novels were written and slated for release in summer 2010 - but they were suddenly and mysteriously cancelled. Those who know why aren't telling.

I felt very let down about the cancelled books. I had been scaling down my purchases of ST books, but the announcement of those book, well, they were must-haves for me, even though it was daunting, monetarily. I was anxious and eager to see the new version of Trek expand. The cancellation was all the harder because they were pulled just before they were released. A real jolt of carpet being yanked from underneath my feet.

I was going to get the ongoing comic series, but no bookstore or comic store were supplying them in my area, so an opportunity to see what I was buying wasn't there. It's nice that they are releasing the TPB collections of the series, but with only 4 comic/2 stories per collection? I flipped through the first TPB release, and felt like the comic was stuck, retracing the path of the original episodes. The new universe was expanding soooo slowly. It doesn't seem as interesting now.

As far as my perception of what Star Trek (2009) set up, I've noticed that it is commonly labelled as the Alternate Universe. That terminology feels like it has a long established connatation, suggesting from the very start that something is wrong, and it needs to be fixed; by either having the characters fix history, or somehow travel to the right version of history. I think the discomfort is even stronger because the changes emerge from Nero's destructive actions, which accentuates the feeling that somethings gone wrong.

I tend to regard this continuity or timeline as the new universe, or the new version of the old universe, or the new version of the old timeline. I'm not hung up on the logic of Nero, because it feels to me like he's a mechanical function of the intention to renew TOS. He was villainous, and dangerous, and had to be stopped; he was frightening in the way that I remember TOS frightened me as a kid with some of the menacing adversaries they had to face.

I am looking foward to brand new stories, that play with the new character dynamic we see between the crew. I want to see the old stories torn apart much more than they are being done by the comic and rebuilt as something 85-95% new, basically the core idea of the old story redeveloped along totally different lines into something we haven't quite seen yet.

 

[Sindatur]

Alternate Timeline, doesn't necessarily mean something is wrong. It merely means, anything can happen in this new "reboot", that it doesn't need to stick to anything that happened in the old timeline.

I don't get any sense that there is a goal of "fixing" this timeline, so it can merge into the previous one. This was a way of preserving everything continuity-wise that happened from 1966 TOS through to the end of ST:VOY and Nemesis, but, still not being bound by that continuity.

The books, apparently got shelved, because they didn't want to be bound by anything that may be written in them. My understanding is that JJ and Company will do a Trilogy of movies, so, after the 3rd movie is released, someone else may take up the helm on this new timeline, or may reboot again. Once that 3rd is done, I would imagine the new timeline books will be allowed to flow

 

[F. King Daniel]

"Alternate Universe" has been used for decades in the fanfic world, simply to mean a story set in a modified version of a ficticious universe. This page notes that STXI uses the term the same way: http://fanlore.org/wiki/Alternate_Universe

 

[F. King Daniel]

The books, apparently got shelved, because they didn't want to be bound by anything that may be written in them. My understanding is that JJ and Company will do a Trilogy of movies, so, after the 3rd movie is released, someone else may take up the helm on this new timeline, or may reboot again. Once that 3rd is done, I would imagine the new timeline books will be allowed to flow

Christopher, who wrote one of those books, has said in the Trek Lit forum that the reason the post-STXI books were cancelled has nothing to do with continuity concerns. Of course, he's not elaborating further...

 

[RPJOB]

Alternate Timeline, doesn't necessarily mean something is wrong. It merely means, anything can happen in this new "reboot", that it doesn't need to stick to anything that happened in the old timeline.

I don't get any sense that there is a goal of "fixing" this timeline, so it can merge into the previous one. This was a way of preserving everything continuity-wise that happened from 1966 TOS through to the end of ST:VOY and Nemesis, but, still not being bound by that continuity.

There's actually no indication that there is a previous timeline left to merge with other that Orci saying so. On screen what we got was this:

Whatever our lives might have been, if the time continuum was disrupted...
our destinies have changed.

And this:

Going back in time you changed all our lives.

And this:

The contrary, Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the USS Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents, that cannot be anticipated by either party.

An alternate reality."

Just as the timeline that Edith Keeler survived in, the prime timeline may have simply winked out, replaced by a new, altered one. It's like diverting a river, if you go back and divert the flow to another channel, the original channel simply dries up.

As we didn't see anything of the prime universe after Spock and Nero entered the black hole we have no way of knowing if it survived or not. It may. Then again, it may not.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

^ I agree with where you are coming from. It will be interesting to see if the writers do. I just feel the main reason they did the alt-U thing is so they could "believably" use characters that are intended to be ten years younger than the original TOS crew. The canon fire-break was perhaps secondary and originality a somewhat lower priority.

That may very well be, but it doesn't bother me. I think it was a good thing to do and am curious as to where they will go with it.

 

[F. King Daniel]

As we didn't see anything of the prime universe after Spock and Nero entered the black hole we have no way of knowing if it survived or not. It may. Then again, it may not.

Unless you read the novels, in which case the adventures of the Prime-universe continue long after the various TV series' and tenth movie ended. The mechanisms for time travel and alternate realities is explained in detail in Watching the Clock.

TV/film wise, the Prime universe essentially ceased to exist in 2005. Trek was done and not coming back in it's current form. And it's even less likely to go back to that overburdned continuity now they've rebooted once successfully.

 

[Gojira]

Alternate Timeline, doesn't necessarily mean something is wrong. It merely means, anything can happen in this new "reboot", that it doesn't need to stick to anything that happened in the old timeline.

I don't get any sense that there is a goal of "fixing" this timeline, so it can merge into the previous one. This was a way of preserving everything continuity-wise that happened from 1966 TOS through to the end of ST:VOY and Nemesis, but, still not being bound by that continuity.

There's actually no indication that there is a previous timeline left to merge with other that Orci saying so. On screen what we got was this:

Whatever our lives might have been, if the time continuum was disrupted...
our destinies have changed.

And this:

Going back in time you changed all our lives.

And this:

The contrary, Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the USS Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents, that cannot be anticipated by either party.

An alternate reality."

Just as the timeline that Edith Keeler survived in, the prime timeline may have simply winked out, replaced by a new, altered one. It's like diverting a river, if you go back and divert the flow to another channel, the original channel simply dries up.

As we didn't see anything of the prime universe after Spock and Nero entered the black hole we have no way of knowing if it survived or not. It may. Then again, it may not.

I have always argued that Trek09 erases the previous time line. The movie is ambiguous about it and both sides of the debate have valid points.

I have come to accept what the writers intended and that this new time line doesn't do anything with the old time line.

 

[RPJOB]

As we didn't see anything of the prime universe after Spock and Nero entered the black hole we have no way of knowing if it survived or not. It may. Then again, it may not.

Unless you read the novels, in which case the adventures of the Prime-universe continue long after the various TV series' and tenth movie ended. The mechanisms for time travel and alternate realities is explained in detail in Watching the Clock.

TV/film wise, the Prime universe essentially ceased to exist in 2005. Trek was done and not coming back in it's current form. And it's even less likely to go back to that overburdned continuity now they've rebooted once successfully.

Actually the prime universe was last seen in the mind meld of ST-2009.

 

[AggieJohn]

This is a good point. I have never understood why Trek Fans need to have one continuous cannon line. There are multiple avenger stories, batman sagas, what Star Trek HAS to have one line. All I would have needed was JJ saying "its a reboot on Star Trek" Done. Good enough for me. There are SO many issues with continuity already we defend the time line stupidly. Its messy and confusing and has major events that occurred in the past like Kahn leaving in 1996. Wash it clean and keep the spirit.

 

[Deks]

I would have no issue with NuTrek had it been executed while maintaining base aspects of what Roddenberry envisioned in the first place while simply telling new stories.
This new movie simply pushes early 21st century Human behavior into the Trek 23rd century (with all of the stupidities and lackluster that goes along with it - probably like the socio-economic system of our current times - although Trek slowly de-evolved on its own and showed wide inconsistencies) and effectively turns this NuTrek into Star Wars.

Sigh... dumbing down everything for the sake of 'financial success'.
I'll go see the next Trek movie out of curiosity alone... but if this 2009 movie was any indication, the future of Trek doesn't really appeal to me.

 

[RPJOB]

What's the problem with Khan existing in 1996? It's not our world. Never has been. It's similar but slightly different. If you insist that the Trek universe be ours projected into the future, what happens in 2063 when the Vulcans don't show up?

A clean reboot would have been best in some ways but I would imagine that there would have been a rather large uproar from some fans. Let's not forget that Enterprise is still in continuity with he new film as is any case where character from the prime universe travelled to the past prior to the appearance of Nero.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I have always argued that Trek09 erases the previous time line.

The writers of the movie have said that it doesn't. They said, "Think Parallels [TNG episode]."

 

[RPJOB]

The point is that there's noting in the movie itself that says that the prime universe still exists. We didn't see it after Spock and Nero entered the black hole. There's comments in numerous parts about how things have changed. It can be taken either way. Author intent is good for getting background on a particular scene but it doesn't override what actually makes it to the screen.

It may not exist. It may exist. At this point we just don't know for sure. Neither viewpoint is wrong based on what was in the movie.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

What's the problem with Khan existing in 1996? It's not our world. Never has been. It's similar but slightly different. If you insist that the Trek universe be ours projected into the future, what happens in 2063 when the Vulcans don't show up?

A clean reboot would have been best in some ways but I would imagine that there would have been a rather large uproar from some fans. Let's not forget that Enterprise is still in continuity with he new film as is any case where character from the prime universe travelled to the past prior to the appearance of Nero.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

 

[Gojira]

The point is that there's noting in the movie itself that says that the prime universe still exists. We didn't see it after Spock and Nero entered the black hole. There's comments in numerous parts about how things have changed. It can be taken either way. Author intent is good for getting background on a particular scene but it doesn't override what actually makes it to the screen.

It may not exist. It may exist. At this point we just don't know for sure. Neither viewpoint is wrong based on what was in the movie.

Very well stated and I agree.

I just hope the new movie mentions something about this little debate and settles the argument.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I would have no issue with NuTrek had it been executed while maintaining base aspects of what Roddenberry envisioned in the first place while simply telling new stories.
This new movie simply pushes early 21st century Human behavior into the Trek 23rd century (with all of the stupidities and lackluster that goes along with it - probably like the socio-economic system of our current times - although Trek slowly de-evolved on its own and showed wide inconsistencies) and effectively turns this NuTrek into Star Wars.

Sigh... dumbing down everything for the sake of 'financial success'.
I'll go see the next Trek movie out of curiosity alone... but if this 2009 movie was any indication, the future of Trek doesn't really appeal to me.

Sorry, but TOS was mid 20th Century Human behavior masquerading as the 23rd century. It was a commentary on then current events not a prediction/blueprint of the future.

ST09 is no "dumber" than TOS. It's in keeping with Gene's "vision". Just not his post TOS vision. TOS was an action adventure show. It had fights and explosions. It's characters had doubts and on occasion did the wrong thing. They disagreed with each other. They kidded each other.

 

[M'Sharak]

The point is that there's noting in the movie itself that says that the prime universe still exists. We didn't see it after Spock and Nero entered the black hole. There's comments in numerous parts about how things have changed. It can be taken either way. Author intent is good for getting background on a particular scene but it doesn't override what actually makes it to the screen.

Neither does anything exclude the possibility that the prime universe exists but—for purposes of telling a story now firmly set in the "alternate reality—it makes no difference, either way. The prime universe has been left behind, at least for the time being.

Remember also, though, that the main in-story reason for pointing out the change was to call attention to the fact that the one most affected by the change was Nero, who—though he had traveled via wormhole from the future—came from a future which did not and which could not possibly result from the timeline in which he now found himself. Thus, Nero had no advantage (over Our Heroes) of knowing ahead of time how events would play out.

SPOCK: ...we must gather with the rest of Starfleet, to balance the terms of the next engagement.
KIRK: There won't be a next engagement. By the time we've gathered, it'll be too late. But you say he's from the future, knows what's going to happen, then the logical thing is to be unpredictable.
SPOCK: You are assuming that Nero knows how events are predicted to unfold. To the contrary, Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the USS Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents that cannot be anticipated by either party.
UHURA: An alternate reality?
SPOCK: Precisely. Whatever our lives might have been, if the time continuum was disrupted, our destinies have changed.

Of course, Spock immediately proceeds to draw the "wrong" conclusion as to what their course of action ought to be, but that's a separate matter, to be "rectified" later on in the story.