Was there a bigger ass to step on to DS9 than

[Kor]

They would have tried, but with no new source of ketrucel white, they would have died in a few weeks. And with no brain to guide them and no fists to impose their will, the Vorta would have posed little threat.

It would depend on when the Founders' destruction happened, since there actually was a new source of Ketracel White established somewhere in the Alpha or Beta quadrant. See below for more detail...

Did it really require the founders to make the Ketracel White? I thought the Vorta, possibly with some technicians of some sort, could operate the factories that made it. The Vorta would probably have been just as eager to take as much of the Alpha Quadrant with them as they died as the Jem Hadar, aside from occassional defective clones like Keevan.

Early in the Dominion War, there were repeated supply issues since they were limited to Ketracel White brought all the way from the Gamma Quadrant. According to Starfleet analysis, it was apparently impossible to replicate the stuff. The recipe and manufacturing process were probably closely guarded by the Founders.

But somehow, later on they were able to have the Son'a start producing the stuff en masse on this side of the galaxy with at least one new facility, as revealed in that unforgettable masterpiece Star Trek: Insurrection and later confirmed in the DS9 episode "Penumbra." And maybe there were more new facilities besides that one. So presumably, at that point there would have been a continual supply of Ketracel White even if the Founders' planet had been blown to smithereens.

Kor

 

[oldtrekkie]

It would depend on when the Founders' destruction happened, since there actually was a new source of Ketracel White established somewhere in the Alpha or Beta quadrant. See below for more detail...



Early in the Dominion War, there were repeated supply issues since they were limited to Ketracel White brought all the way from the Gamma Quadrant. According to Starfleet analysis, it was apparently impossible to replicate the stuff. The recipe and manufacturing process were probably closely guarded by the Founders.

But somehow, later on they were able to have the Son'a start producing the stuff en masse on this side of the galaxy with at least one new facility, as revealed in that unforgettable masterpiece Star Trek: Insurrection and later confirmed in the DS9 episode "Penumbra." And maybe there were more new facilities besides that one. So presumably, at that point there would have been a continual supply of Ketracel White even if the Founders' planet had been blown to smithereens.

Kor

I know they're not very consistent about this. But in "The Ship" the Jemadar killed themselves immediately after the changeling died. Wouldn't the death of all changelings cause the Jemadar to kill themselves en masse and wouldn't that at least cause the remainder to stop obeying the Vorta, after all, their motto is that they serve the founders, not the Vorta.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for the changelings given all that they did. Tailor-made plagues that torture and keep in squalor entire planets for centuries! They designed sapient species for the sole purpose of being kamikaze fighters, species designed without any kind of appreciation for art or harmless fun. We saw for example how the young jemadar wanted to kill everyone that crossed his path that wasn't a Jemadar or a founder without any other kind of prompting than what's written in his genome. Only something akin to pond scum would design such things. In many ways, the changelings are even worse than the borg.

Not the changelings, the Cardassian citizens (unless you think they don't count).

 

[Kor]

I know they're not very consistent about this. But in "The Ship" the Jemadar killed themselves immediately after the changeling died. Wouldn't the death of all changelings cause the Jemadar to kill themselves en masse and wouldn't that at least cause the remainder to stop obeying the Vorta, after all, their motto is that they serve the founders, not the Vorta.

Maybe the Vorta could have managed to keep the Jem'Hadar in the dark about the Founders being gone, at least for a while. I can't remember now, but I don't think that most Jem'Hadar ships had a Founder aboard. They operated under the supervision (or something like that) of a Vorta, who dispensed their Ketracel White.

Kor

 

[Oddish]

The Changelings were the Dominion's brain, the Vorta were its voice, and the Jem'Hadar were its fists.

Regarding Weyoun, he was a great villain. Wonder if they could bring him back... after all, you can always grow more clones if you have the original's DNA.

 

[oldtrekkie]

Not the changelings, the Cardassian citizens (unless you think they don't count).

Of course, they count. They've occupied Bajor for fifty years and during that time, stolen everything they had, their ore (that they made the Bajoran themselves, process for them), their food (keeping the Bajoran near starvation), and massacred anyone who didn't agree with that policy and all that lasted for FIFTY YEARS, that's not just something that you can sweep under the rug, is it? Plus when they signed a treaty with the Bajoran, seemingly admitting that they were wrong.. it took them only months to ally themselves with the Dominion and start the whole thing up again. Giving the Dominion a foothold in the Alpha Quadrant from where they could plot the invasion of the entire quadrant. Whatever the Dominion did to them, somehow they had it coming. Like Martok said... poetic justice.

 

[Oddish]

Of course, they count. They've occupied Bajor for fifty years and during that time, stolen everything they had, their ore (that they made the Bajoran themselves, process for them), their food (keeping the Bajoran near starvation), and massacred anyone who didn't agree with that policy and all that lasted for FIFTY YEARS, that's not just something that you can sweep under the rug, is it? Plus when they signed a treaty with the Bajoran, seemingly admitting that they were wrong.. it took them only months to ally themselves with the Dominion and start the whole thing up again. Giving the Dominion a foothold in the Alpha Quadrant from where they could plot the invasion of the entire quadrant. Whatever the Dominion did to them, somehow they had it coming. Like Martok said... poetic justice.

Perhaps as a species, you could say that. But when you have 800 million dead Cardassians strewn about, many of them infants and children and most of the others civilians who probably had no idea what was going on on Bajor, or could even find it on a star chart... it gets a lot less poetic, I think.

 

[fireproof78]

*pours out celebratory drink*

 

[ichab]

I see a lot of folks are picking the female changeling, but while I agree she was the most evil, the question was "who is the biggest ass?" When I think of someone "being an ass" I think of someone who is full of themselves, doesn't care what others think and enjoys the sound of their own voice. For me, Gul Dukat fits that bill perfectly. A close second would be Kai Winn.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

When I think of someone "being an ass" I think of someone who is full of themselves, doesn't care what others think and enjoys the sound of their own voice

What about Zek? Or Necheyev? Or Quark? Or Tom Paris? (He was kind of an ass to start. )

 

[ichab]

What about Zek? Or Necheyev? Or Quark? Or Tom Paris? (He was kind of an ass to start. )

Necheyev was a bit player in a few episodes and Tom Paris was Voyager.

Zek and Quark were certainly asses, but they at least had some redeeming qualities. I can't think of many for Gul Dukat, who seemed to make an ass of himself almost every time he opened his mouth.

 

[oldtrekkie]

What about Zek? Or Necheyev? Or Quark? Or Tom Paris? (He was kind of an ass to start. )

Don't forget Neelix.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Tom Paris was Voyager.

Look back at the OP.

 

[Oddish]

Don't forget Neelix.

More obnoxious than Zimmerman, maybe. But he never set foot within 30,000LY of Deep Space 9.

 

[Lynx]

And...? Not sure what that has to do with the OP. Being funny doesn't make you less of an ass. Doesn't make you tolerable somehow. Brunt was nearly insufferable, as was Kevan.

You do have a point here. But me with my twisted sense of humor have always had a thing for villains who are absolut scumbags but can be funny in som evil way.

I guess that it started when I was a kid and watched a Western series called Macahan Family. There was a villain there called Mr Peasley who was so slimy, cunning and disgusting that he actually was funny. OK, I didn't really like him and I was happy when he was killed off in the last episode but I did find him funny in some ways. I just couldn't help laughing at his comments and behavior sometimes.

The actor who played Mr. Peasley was Harris Yulin who was Aamin Marritza in the DS9 episode Duet. He was excellent there too.

I also liked J.R Ewing in Dallas for the same reasons!

I see a lot of folks are picking the female changeling, but while I agree she was the most evil, the question was "who is the biggest ass?" When I think of someone "being an ass" I think of someone who is full of themselves, doesn't care what others think and enjoys the sound of their own voice. For me, Gul Dukat fits that bill perfectly. A close second would be Kai Winn.

I agree here. As I see it, Kai Winn would win the prize as "biggest ass".

Dukat was a great villain. I find him the best villain ever in Star Trek.

 

[Lynx]

The Changelings were the Dominion's brain, the Vorta were its voice, and the Jem'Hadar were its fists.

Regarding Weyoun, he was a great villain. Wonder if they could bring him back... after all, you can always grow more clones if you have the original's DNA.

I would love to see Weyoun again in Picard some other future Star Trek series.

 

[kkt]

I would love to see Weyoun again in Picard some other future Star Trek series.

I would too. But they're probably never going to have him appear. DS9 had a relatively small viewership so they'd have to do a lot of tedious exposition to explain who this character is before the plot could start.

 

[Oddish]

Depends on whether continuity with DS9 was strictly necessary. I can see situations where it wouldn't be. Weyoun is unctuous and slimy no matter the context.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Morn.

Have you listened to that guy? What an ass.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Morn.

Have you listened to that guy? What an ass.

Total ass. He's been giving me the silent treatment for years.