Was Takei's reason silly for not appearing in Generations?

[Therin of Andor]

If it were true it would be a silly reason, but it's not true. George Takei has never turned down a role in a feature film in his life, and neither would Nichelle or Walter.

Actually, George Takei and his agent held out on appearing in ST II until almost the first day of principal photography. He was wooed back by the inclusion of the scene where Kirk promotes him to captain of Excelsior (see novelization). He held out on ST IV, too, and was wooed by the great great grandfather scene. Neither scene ended up being completed, but at least they got Takei onto the set. He was pleasantly surprised to see his captain scenes in his first read-through of ST VI; no further temptation needed.

AFAIK, he was not offered a role in "Generations", so wasn't able to turn down such an offer. Yes, an early draft assumed all seven actors might appear. But the scene where (only) Kirk, Spock and McCoy discuss the presence of Chekov's daughter on the Enterprise-B bridge was lightly rewritten as Kirk, Scott and Chekov discussing the presence of Sulu's daughter. That's also why Scotty does a few Spock-like lines and Chekov gets to act as a chief medic. A mere name global change.

 

[Gorn Captain]

Sorry for the formatting difficulties, i'm on an uncooperative iPad:

Therin of Andor wrote:

"Actually, George Takei and his agent held out on appearing in ST II until almost the first day of principal photography. He was wooed back by the inclusion of the scene where Kirk promotes him to captain of Excelsior (see novelization). He held out on ST IV, too, and was wooed by the great great grandfather scene. Neither scene ended up being completed, but at least they got Takei onto the set. He was pleasantly surprised to see his captain scenes in his first read-through of ST VI; no further temptation needed."

And that's great, but doesn't change the truth or substance of what I said, since he appeared in both of those movies. It's one thing to threaten to refuse, how many times did Shatner pull that? But there has not been a Star Trek movie in which Takei's presence was genuinely desired in which he did not appear. If anything, his desire to play Sulu has exceeded the wishes of the powers that be, given his campaigning for an Excelsior television series.

 

[Gorn Captain]

(duplicate)

 

[Infern0]

it seems dumb to me.

Sulu came across as having a sense of humor, i dont see why he would have minded it, hell he even could have worked with his daughter, going to take the helm, but then letting her do it, and passing the torch to her.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Sulu came across as having a sense of humor, i dont see why he would have minded it, hell he even could have worked with his daughter, going to take the helm, but then letting her do it, and passing the torch to her.

But in that early draft of the story, the unnamed Demora was Chekov's daughter. She only became Sulu's daughter when Koenig accepted the role that Kelley turned down.

 

[Trek Survivor]

IP.S... In the Generations timeline, Scotty should have been stuck in a transporter buffer. I guess that the Generations writers didn't know their TNG very well.

Nope, Scotty's trip on the Jenolan takes place after "Generations"' prologue... Scotty's "trapped in a transporter for seventy five years" is clearly a rounding up

 

[BillJ]

P.S... In the Generations timeline, Scotty should have been stuck in a transporter buffer. I guess that the Generations writers didn't know their TNG very well.

Ron Moore wrote Relics and co-wrote Star Trek: Generations.

 

[Cyke101]

P.S... In the Generations timeline, Scotty should have been stuck in a transporter buffer. I guess that the Generations writers didn't know their TNG very well.

Ron Moore wrote Relics and co-wrote Star Trek: Generations.

Right indeed. But honestly, even if Relics and Generations really did contradict each other, having Doohan show up in a TNG movie is more important than an episode from years before, esp. since it was a passing-of-the-torch film. If a nit really was created, the writers have every right to override themselves simply because of the symbolic value that the TOS crew bring to the film.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

IIRC, the script was rewritten many times not just to conform to the studio's requests, but also to accommodate the production's strict time table, with filming starting almost immediately after All Good Things.., so there wasn't enough time to even really negotiate with Nimoy and Kelley. Had the production not been so rushed, I'm so sure the writers might have found a way to include the entire TOS crew in a way that would satisfy the cast.

The script was written during the summer hiatus between seasons six and seven of TNG. I think what hampered the script was the fact that Moore and Braga were both writing the series at the same time; once season seven geared up their priorities were with the series, not with the film script, and so rewrites weren't feasible. Nimoy, when Berman approached him to direct, wanted script changes (the only one I'm certain of is a removal or scaling back of the Data subplot), but Berman said there wasn't time for a rewrite. There actually was the time for rewrites, but Berman would have had to bring in other writers to handle it.

Filming of Generations overlapped with the filming of "All Good Things..." by about a week, as I recall. The prologue sequences didn't require the TNG cast, and they had a two week break in-between "All Good Things..." and their work on Generations (which was Worf's promotion ceremony). Geordi's torture scene was also shot early, because that's the only scene that featured the new Starfleet costumes.

 

[Aldo]

Nimoy, when Berman approached him to direct, wanted script changes (the only one I'm certain of is a removal or scaling back of the Data subplot), but Berman said there wasn't time for a rewrite.

I could see that. I recall in Nimoy's autobiography (the second one, the "I am Spock") he mentions a lot that he feels a good film only has scenes that are essential to the plot of the film. The Data subplot, while a nice progression of the character, is quite superfluous to the main plot of Generations.

 

[ShatnersToupee]

I'll be the first to admit this could be nothing but a rumor, but over at the trivia section of IMDB is this gem for Generations:

The producers asked George Takei to come back and play Sulu one more time, and take the helm of the Enterprise-B. But Takei refused because if Sulu had taken the helm, it would have meant temporarily reducing Sulu's rank, so that he could serve under Captain Kirk again. He felt that Sulu had worked too hard to earn his command to allow even a temporary reduction.

We all know the scene in question and it would have probably been cute. Of course had Takei returned as Sulu we probably wouldn't have gotten his daughter in the movie. It just seems like a dumb reason to me...of course it makes sense after reading his autobiography and seeing how much of a stick up his ass he had when it came to Shatner.

Actually it seems like a dumb reason to include his character in the movie. They could've had any idiot at the helm. Nimoy and Kelley both passed on Generations because they could tell that their lines could've been given to anyone, which is exactly what happened. I don't blame Takei for passing and I'm sure it had nothing to do with his dislike for Shatner. Given his long association with Star Trek, what an insult to have him come back just to be a red shirt sitting at the helm.

 

[Tomalak]

I hate the Enterprise-B sequence in Generations, specifically all the silly TNG technobabble given to Scotty. And to think it was originally supposed to be Spock! Hardly surprising Nimoy turned them down.

 

[ShatnersToupee]

I hate the Enterprise-B sequence in Generations, specifically all the silly TNG technobabble given to Scotty. And to think it was originally supposed to be Spock! Hardly surprising Nimoy turned them down.

Yeah, it's pretty obvious that Scotty and Chekov's lines were originally meant for Spock and McCoy. That the lines could be so easily changed to suit different characters shows how little respect the writers had for TOS. You get Spock and McCoy in your movie and all you can do is give them glorified cameos and have them spout technobabble BS? As soon as Scotty said "their lifesigns are phasing in and out of our space/time continuum", I was ready to stop watching. Seriously, how dumb do you think your audience is that they'd actually believe you have instruments capable of telling when someone is no longer part of our space/time continuum? It illustrates just how lazy Berman-era Trek writers were. Here's an idea. How bout just saying their signals keep fading in and out and let the audience deduce later on that it's because they were popping in and out of the Nexus? But no, we can't have that. Instead, Braga and Moore have to use their techno BS to tell us what's happening.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Seriously, how dumb do you think your audience is that they'd actually believe you have instruments capable of telling when someone is no longer part of our space/time continuum?

I believe it. That kind of thing happens quite frequently in Star Trek. If it were up to me, I'd certainly make sure that there's some kind of space/time continuum detector thing on every ship.

 

[Satyrquaze]

If Sulu had been there, who would have been the 'John Harriman' character?

Kirk would have gone down to Deflector Control and Sulu would have taken command. The scene wouldn't have worked at all.

 

[BillJ]

If Sulu had been there, who would have been the 'John Harriman' character?

Kirk would have gone down to Deflector Control and Sulu would have taken command. The scene wouldn't have worked at all.

I think Sulu was suppose to be manning the helm for the ceremonial first flight. Harriman was still suppose to be the captain.

 

[Tomalak]

Instead, Braga and Moore have to use their techno BS to tell us what's happening.

In fairness, they didn't even know who they were writing for, so it was all left rather generic. But I definitely agree the tone of the scene was totally wrong for the TOS characters. It was the same with Scotty in Relics actually. They just needed to tone down the neutrinos and quantums and deflectors a bit. It's surprising Moore didn't get it really.

 

[Satyrquaze]

If Sulu had been there, who would have been the 'John Harriman' character?

Kirk would have gone down to Deflector Control and Sulu would have taken command. The scene wouldn't have worked at all.

I think Sulu was suppose to be manning the helm for the ceremonial first flight. Harriman was still suppose to be the captain.

And the moment Harriman was clearly out of his depth it would have been Sulu's duty to assume command.

 

[BillJ]

If Sulu had been there, who would have been the 'John Harriman' character?

Kirk would have gone down to Deflector Control and Sulu would have taken command. The scene wouldn't have worked at all.

I think Sulu was suppose to be manning the helm for the ceremonial first flight. Harriman was still suppose to be the captain.

And the moment Harriman was clearly out of his depth it would have been Sulu's duty to assume command.

I'm not so sure... Star Trek has never been clear about what authority a visiting captain would have over the sitting captain of a starship. Is being 'out of his element' sufficient reason to relieve someone of command? Would a visiting captain have the authority to make that determination in the first place?

 

[Satyrquaze]

I'd cite "The Doomsday Machine", but Decker was a Commodore.

It is remarkably unclear on camera, but I think a Captain standing there going "Uhhhh..." while people are dying is sufficient reason to relieve him if you are also a Captain and have more experience.