was Sybok a silly idea ?

[A beaker full of death]

Smiley said:
I'm referring to the execution of the concept. A neutral planet is great, but making it a desert planet full of malcontents makes zero sense.

I quite disagree. The history that Talbot recites for the collapse of the dream was quite realistic, to my mind.

 

[Sharr Khan]

Smiley said:
I'm referring to the execution of the concept. A neutral planet is great, but making it a desert planet full of malcontents makes zero sense.

You mean like Australia?

Sharr

 

[flandry84]

A couple of lines of dialogue explaining Sybok's existence could have made a world of difference.The novelisation revealed Sybok as the product of an earlier arranged marraige of Sarek to a vulcan woman.In the movie the revalation of Spock's brother came over as very soap-operaish.

 

[Ezri]

Arlo said:
Spock was standing say, 15 feet from Sybock, holding that zip gun thing. He could have shot him in the kneecaps. He could have charged him and had a vulcan-on-vulcan fisticuffs.

Hell, Scotty saw it all happen from the viewing station. He could have had a team of armed security down there to diffuse the situation in seconds, rather than wait it all out until he did his "prison break".

It was a pretty lame starship takeover.

It was lame ... it was pointless ... oh ya Shatner was the director ... DO I HAVE TO SAY MORE

 

[Sharr Khan]

flandry84 said:
A couple of lines of dialogue explaining Sybok's existence could have made a world of difference.The novelisation revealed Sybok as the product of an earlier arranged marraige of Sarek to a vulcan woman.In the movie the revalation of Spock's brother came over as very soap-operaish.

Hardly "soap operish" which isn't in and of itself a bad thing.

It was made pretty clear that Sybok's mother was another Vulcan woman. "You mean he's your brother brother?"
"Yes Capitan. Sybok is a sone of Sarek."
McCoy: "You mean same father different mother?"
Spock: "Yes"

Anymore pondering of that really wasn't called for as only a dullered wouldn't get the idea by then.

Sharr

 

[SchwEnt]

Sybok as renegade Vulcan embracing emotions is an okay idea (What do you get when you cross emotions and a Vulcan--
a Romulan!)

Having him be Spock's brother was an ehh idea.
Only made it interesting with Sarek.
I imagine Sarek was deeply disappointed and embarrassed for someone of his stature to have an elder son betray Vulcan teachings.
Explains all the more reason why Sarek put so much pressure on Spock to uphold the Vulcan way in spite of his nature.
Oh well.

 

[Sharr Khan]

(What do you get when you cross emotions and a Vulcan--
a Romulan!)

Not as a given, no. You simply get a Pre-Surakian Vulcan which is not by default a Romulan as the Romulan branch all indications are were a political/social force on Vulcan at the same time as Surak began to spread his teachings.

Sharr

 

[flandry84]

Dullered? Do you mean dullard?
IRONY

 

[Sharr Khan]

flandry84 said:
Dullered? Do you mean dullard?
IRONY

Yes yes.

 

[flandry84]

i'M SORRY......loooong day

 

[IDIC]

Sybok was a great idea. The main problem I had with the story was the planet of Galactic Peace with the Klingons, Romulans, and Federation making it some desert wasteland.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

DS9Sega said:
Credible motivation: Sybok rebelled against the teachings of Surak. Young half-human Spock could have been his disciple, attracted to the idea that he could be emotional. Sybok is banished, and Spock realizes the "error" of his ways and goes Vulcan. They could have been friends with a super intense bond like the one Spock has with Kirk. They needn't have been blood relatives.

As Sybok was originally, I think his name was Zor, he was just a Vulcan monk who rebelled against Surak's teachings; however, I don't recall, if Spock knew him or not in the early treatment of the story entitled "An Act of Love."

Nevertheless, I have to side with GR and especially Fontana on Sybok. It was unnecessary to have him blood related to Spock as another son of Sarek, and, as DS9sega, has pointed out it was an easy fix to have Spock not pull the trigger. In fact, it might've been more powerful that way and would've said more about Spock's character. Having Sybok be his brother takes away from Spock's uniqueness as a character and robs him of a certain mystic.

Now, I don't think Sybok was a silly idea but that the "half-brother" aspect was not needed. If they really needed to give Spock a "deeper" connection, then they could've made Sybok a cousin much as Vonda M. McIntyre did with Stephan in Enterprise: First Adventure.

I hope that this is one of the things from "canon" that gets jettisoned in the Abrams movie. Spock, as Fontana said, should be the only child of Sarek, which makes their relationship more powerful and Sarek's motivations a lot stronger for wanting a Vulcan son and not a Human son.

 

[Ezri]

Sharr Khan said:

(What do you get when you cross emotions and a Vulcan--
a Romulan!)

Not as a given, no. You simply get a Pre-Surakian Vulcan which is not by default a Romulan as the Romulan branch all indications are were a political/social force on Vulcan at the same time as Surak began to spread his teachings.

Sharr

Do not think you would have to go back that far in Vulcan history. The Vulcans in the Enterprise era did have more emotions then we give them credit. The Vulcan High Council were very emotional, using a place of worship as a spying center; killing citizens of their own planet because of a faith; starting wars … that is emotional not logical.

 

[blockaderunner]

number6 said:
Sybok was a clumsy attempt to hold a mirror to the self-help gurus so prevalent in the 80's.

Wasn't he originally concieved as this charismatic, violent evagelical zealot ala Pat Robinson with even less sanctity for life?

 

[jayrath]

I'm not big on surprise relatives of any sort: Worf has a brother, Data has a "mom," and so on.

On the other hand, Spock had a history of these zingers, waiting for the ambassador to come abour before revealing he was dad, and surprising the bridge with his "fiance."

If I recall correctly, Sybok-as-brother was forced on Shatner by the studio, and there was a bit of eye-rolling among the cast even at the time. At least, that's what I remember from Shatner's "Movie Memories."

 

[Maurice]

^^^However, Shatner's "Memories" are often suspect.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

jayrath said:
I'm not big on surprise relatives of any sort: Worf has a brother, Data has a "mom," and so on.

On the other hand, Spock had a history of these zingers, waiting for the ambassador to come abour before revealing he was dad, and surprising the bridge with his "fiance."

If I recall correctly, Sybok-as-brother was forced on Shatner by the studio, and there was a bit of eye-rolling among the cast even at the time. At least, that's what I remember from Shatner's "Movie Memories."

According to Lisabeth Shatner's William Shatner's Personal Account of the Making of Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, Harve Bennett came up with the Sybok is Spock's brother.

Excerpt from William Shatner's...Frontier pg. 62-63

Soon after, one [re: script structural inconsistencies] became apparent. The scene where Spock refuses to shoot Sybok cried out for a deeper motivation that would explain Spock's behavior. At the time, the only explanation given was that Spock knew this Vulcan in seminary school. It seemed an inadequate reason why loyal Spock would refrain from defending his ship and his Captain. Harve, David [Loughery], and my father began searching for the background story which would make the scene realistic.

"We originally said that this Vulcan would be someone that Spock knew," Harve explained. "But at one point I said, 'Ah, it has to be more than that-- it's his brother.' 'Get out of here!' they both said. 'Why his brother?' I'll tell you why I said it and why I fought for it: because none of us could solve the problem of why Spock wouldn't kill him. The answer is that there had to be something else operating there. Just because he was another Vulcan wasn't sufficient. Spock would have found a way. He would have used a phaser, or the neck pinch-- something. So I thought there was only one way. He has to hesitate because he has an emotional attachment. And for him to have an emotional attachment, you have to put a label right on his forehead that says, 'instant understanding' hence, brother."

I am not a hater of Bennett and some of the things he implemented in his take on Trek, but this shows his origins in "television" mentality and is not one of his stronger solutions. Of course, it was the simplest.

 

[Maurice]

It was also foolish because Spock doesn't resist at all. He could just as easily have thrown the gun aside and tried to restrain Sybok. Also, as soon as Sybok released Kirk, the Captain should have bolted for the nearest phaser. It's stupid plotting all the way through.

 

[A beaker full of death]

DS9Sega said:
He could just as easily have thrown the gun aside and tried to restrain Sybok.

Vulcans don't get into physical struggles. Hell, that's why Nimoy invented the nerve pinch.

 

[shipfisher]

Sybok - not too silly

A 78 deck 1701A - silly

Letting Shatner direct - extremely silly. (and I say this as an otherwise huge fan of the Shat - God bless him)

---------------

"Everybody's doing it, picking their nose and chewing it...oh...sorry Vader"
The Truly Evil Emperor