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was Sybok a silly idea ?

DumbDumb2007

Commander
was introducing the charactyer of Sybok in star trek 5 a sily idea ? i coduildn't buy it.
I still fele teh idea of a instant Vulcan half brother didnt work.' It would have been better if the idea of Sybok would have been an exiled Vulcan leader or chief elder...
 
Either you are:
a) Really drunk
b) ESL
:)

Anyway, I had no problem with the character of Sybok. I renegade Vulcan is, in fact, a compelling notion (something along the lines of the Mule from Foundation). Making him Spock's half brother was a needless stretch, however. It would have been enough they knew each other as children.
 
Arlo said:
Making him Spock's half brother was a needless stretch, however. It would have been enough they knew each other as children.
No: Spock can't possibly have potentially divided loyalties unless Sybok is at least as close -- or potentially as close -- to Spock as Kirk and McCoy are. Sybok can't simply be someone Spock knew; he has to be someone as much a brother as Kirk is.
 
Have never understood the reason Sybok had to be the half brother of Spock. He could be a Vulcan, and he could have been a friend of Spock as a child. If Sybok was not the half brother of Spock, then Spock could not have pointed that weapon at him at point black range without discharging the weapon.
 
Meh, I don't buy it. Brother or not, I don't see Spock executing *anyone* in cold blood, which is what Kirk was basically asking him to do.
 
Renegade Vulcan - not silly.

Spock's sudden half-brother --- out the window. Yet another nail in TFF's "creative" coffin.

--Ted
 
Arlo said:
Meh, I don't buy it. Brother or not, I don't see Spock executing *anyone* in cold blood, which is what Kirk was basically asking him to do.

What is worse, killing someone in cold blood, or, not killing someone in cold blood and then having to live with the affects of letting someone live that could cost the lives of hundreds or even thousands of people?

How many times we have asked or been asked in a philosophical question about going back in time and killing Hitler as a child. Killing Hitler as an infant is no different than killing Hitler in cold blood. Yes, we have history to prove we are correct to perform this act.

With any crewmember of any ship, real or fantasy the first duty is to the ship. Having someone with hostile intent needs to be liquated, not doing so jeopardize the safety of the ship. Debating if he is armed or unarmed is a moot point.
 
Spock was standing say, 15 feet from Sybock, holding that zip gun thing. He could have shot him in the kneecaps. He could have charged him and had a vulcan-on-vulcan fisticuffs.

Hell, Scotty saw it all happen from the viewing station. He could have had a team of armed security down there to diffuse the situation in seconds, rather than wait it all out until he did his "prison break".

It was a pretty lame starship takeover.
 
Sybok was a clumsy attempt to hold a mirror to the self-help gurus so prevalent in the 80's.

I liked the idea of him being Spock's half-brother. the rest of the film kinda sucked monkey balls.
 
No, not really silly though maybe it would've been more accepted by a lot more people if Sybok was Spock's cousin or an uncle.`
 
Nebusj said:
Arlo said:
Making him Spock's half brother was a needless stretch, however. It would have been enough they knew each other as children.
No: Spock can't possibly have potentially divided loyalties unless Sybok is at least as close -- or potentially as close -- to Spock as Kirk and McCoy are. Sybok can't simply be someone Spock knew; he has to be someone as much a brother as Kirk is.

Which is why Kirk made Sybock be Spock's half brother. It would have been a stretch for Spock to put the ship in danger over a childhood friend, but by making him family, they gave him credible motivation.
 
Credible motivation: Sybok rebelled against the teachings of Surak. Young half-human Spock could have been his disciple, attracted to the idea that he could be emotional. Sybok is banished, and Spock realizes the "error" of his ways and goes Vulcan. They could have been friends with a super intense bond like the one Spock has with Kirk. They needn't have been blood relatives.
 
Indeed, having Sybok be Spock's childhood friend could well have been momentous for our poor half-blood. After all, Spock might well have been the first Vulcan in post-Surakian history to have a childhood friend.

I wasn't much bothered by Sybok's ability to take over the ship even when our heroes had multiple options to defeat him. After all, that was specifically Sybok's knack: to make people forget that they have options, agendas and priorities, and have them proceed in a manner suiting Sybok's plans instead, or then not proceed at all. Of course, Sybok wanted to call that "freedom", but it came out as the exact opposite.

It's probably a Mandrake the Magician thing: you can't defeat Sybok if you come within eyesight of him, but you can start planning jailbreaks and the like if you stay far enough away from him. Vulcan telepathy is typically described as range-limited anyway.

I wonder if Sybok's "special" ability is in fact standard fare but considered shameful by the Vulcans. It could be the very same thing Spock uses on the chick in "Omega Glory" - a telepathic flirtation technique that a Surakian Vulcan wouldn't be caught dead using in public.

No, I don't consider Sybok a silly idea in any sense, and I very much like all the aspects of the practical execution, from casting and makeup to mannerisms and dialogue and plot. This character could really carry the movie if the massive pacing problems and the shortcomings of visual appeal could be overcome.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Despite TFF's many problems, I love the concept of Sybok and I have no problem with him being Spock's brother. It's a shame the execution didn't live up to it, though I've always thought Laurence Luckinbill's performance is far too underrated. It carries a lot of the film for me.
 
No,
I like the idea of him as Spock's full blooded Vulcan brother embracing a kind of "humanness" Spock felt afraid to embrace. He was also the most honest Vulcan we've met thus far.

It kinda bugs me that GR (as well as DC Fontana whose reasoning why Spock should be an only child feels to me simplistic and misses the point of Spock) felt a need to brush him aside. Sybok was IDIC, one the whole of Vulcan culture needed as a mirror.

His portrayal was wonderfully acted and helps endear Star Trek V for me.

Up until I found this nifty pic of Megan Fox, I had chosen a smiling Sybok as an avatar with hopes it would cheese off a few diehards but also remind everyone Vulcan's are a tapestry as much as humans.

Also since Vulcan's bond in childhood (and live so long) its reasonable that Sarek was linked to a Vulcan female long before Amanda came into the picture. We know Sarek seems to desire companionship since he married after Amanda died. This species sexual drives being as compelling as they are its perfect sense there is a Sybok.

Sharr
 
Smiley said:
Sybok is not a silly idea, but Nimbus III certainly is.

I thought Nimbus III was a great notion, it kinda fit into the TNG notion of doing things. It also reminded me of some Utopian UN project destined to failure.

On that note Caithlin Dar needed more screen time. I remember being infatuated by her when I saw the film and it intensified after reading the novel.

Sharr
 
I'm referring to the execution of the concept. A neutral planet is great, but making it a desert planet full of malcontents makes zero sense. Also, the sheer illogic of most of the action down on that planet is astounding.
 
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