The problem is that it's the same exact moral quandary.
Was Spock wrong to abandon the Rigel colonies?
- Thread starter BillJ
- Start date
The problem is that it's the same exact moral quandary.
YARN
Fleet Captain
LOL, the mere fact that Decker relented when Spock made it clear that he would forcibly arrest and detain him does not prove Spock was justified. On the contrary, it simply establishes that Decker was rational for recognizing when he was out of options. If he were really nuts, they would have had to drag him kicking and screaming off the bridge.
Decker is the highest ranking person there. He is senior to both Spock and Kirk. Kirk can whine and demand all he wants, but he is not properly in command of the Enterprise at this point. Decker is under no obligation to circle back to Kirk, or confer with Kirk, or get his permission do his duty as he sees fit. Rather, it is Kirk's duty as a subordinate officer to do what Decker commands so that Decker can perform his duty. It ain't a democracy.
As for,
"endangering his or her command without good reason.".
I suppose Dienekes should have removed Leonidas from command on the grounds that there were too many Persians to contend with? They could not win, therefore, there was no good reason to fight, right?
The Rigelians would never build you a statue. Hitting the thing with full phasers at point black range was desperate, but it was also something he hadn't tried yet. Moerover, Decker's strategy of "if at first you don't succeed, get a little closer" turned out to be the right strategy after all.
Most troubling of all is your blindness to the good reason that is on the table, and that is the duty of our protectors to defend the families and children of the civilian public no matter the personal cost. Your duty is to do your utmost, even in a desperate fight - indeed, especially if you are in a desperate fight, to defend those you are sworn to protect.
Again, Spock only "mans up" after Kirk yells at him to remover Decker from Command. If Kirk is simply "obviously right" that Decker should be removed from command, then Spock is to be faulted for failing to do what was right. On the other hand, if Kirk wasn't obviously right and Spock is not to be faulted for his inaction (for which McCoy berates him), then he had no good reason, at this point, to remove Decker from comand because Kirk is also a subordinate officer. It would be like Sulu claiming he was justified in removing Kirk from comand merely because Spock ordered him to.
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It's the "Good of the many..." motif that runs throughout Star Trek. Can't fault J.J. and Co. for using it.
i have read this entire thread and i find it interesting that there is more than enough ground to say both both spock and decker are equally right and wrong. what i mean is that decker should be both commended and criticized for his actions . he wanted to save the rigellians a noble and courageous act. and he was correct in that he was in charge, but what i find telling is that he was operating under the assumption that even if it cost his life and the crew's the pk would not survive. it never occurred to him what would happen if he failed , that his sacrifice, however intended, would have been in vain and pointless . without a warning of any kind , all he would be doing is basically dying and then the machine would go on to rigel and kill everyone there and prob keep on killing more and more. i do not fault his motives and he should be commended for wanting to save lives , but his plan would have cost more than it saved.
i do agree that spock should have taken command sooner and should not have waited for the captain to "cover his ass " , if he felt as strongly as he claimed. that was his big mistake . but he was looking at the big picture , not "fleeing " or "bugging out" as some have claimed . he would have prob rammed the enterprise herself down the machines throat or agreed to deckers plan if it was even remotely possible that it could be destroyed and save rigel even if it cost their lives. but he saw the way it was playing out they would be destroyed and not only rigel would be in danger , but many more would have died.
i remember hearing an old story about the military that during a time of war , they had cracked the enemys secret code and that they learned that the enemy was going to attack a city and the civilian population would have tremendous casualties. they had two options , do nothing and the people die , or fortify and protect the people and the enemy would know that they broke thier code and change possible causing them to have the possibility of losing the war and having a lot more blood on thier hands. they chose to let the people die. so that more could live. its a no win scenario. that is essentially what spock was doing , milions might have to die so billions can be saved.
i do agree that spock should have taken command sooner and should not have waited for the captain to "cover his ass " , if he felt as strongly as he claimed. that was his big mistake . but he was looking at the big picture , not "fleeing " or "bugging out" as some have claimed . he would have prob rammed the enterprise herself down the machines throat or agreed to deckers plan if it was even remotely possible that it could be destroyed and save rigel even if it cost their lives. but he saw the way it was playing out they would be destroyed and not only rigel would be in danger , but many more would have died.
i remember hearing an old story about the military that during a time of war , they had cracked the enemys secret code and that they learned that the enemy was going to attack a city and the civilian population would have tremendous casualties. they had two options , do nothing and the people die , or fortify and protect the people and the enemy would know that they broke thier code and change possible causing them to have the possibility of losing the war and having a lot more blood on thier hands. they chose to let the people die. so that more could live. its a no win scenario. that is essentially what spock was doing , milions might have to die so billions can be saved.
Well there you have it. "Good reason." I'm glad you brought up this invaluable phrase.
You think it is good reason to continue this fight on the premise of trying to be the "protectors to defend the families and children of the civilian public no matter the personal cost." This would make sense if you had a fighting chance. Decker's conventional attack was not working, but he was doggedly continuing it. The Enterprise was already seriously damaged by the planet killer because of his continued strategy. He didn't see that he was continuing to lose and seek the counsel of his fellow high ranking officers. No, he refused to listen to Kirk.
So yes... die in the valiant fight to save Rigel. But then after the Enterprise is destroyed, the planet killer resumes course for Rigel, destroys it, and then goes onto the next system to destroy it as well. Starfleet remains in the dark... they've got more starships no longer in contact and more systems going silent. Do you seriously plan to stand your ground and say this is the right choice? If you do, then I will bow and thank you for this fine debate, but I now consider it over. Because I question your definition of "good reason" in this context.
You'd rather fail in trying to protect Rigel, rather than surviving to help ensure many more lives are not lost? That really doesn't make sense to me... and apparently to a few others here.
Decker would not have been relieved if he'd been sensible. And being sensible, he could have worked with Kirk and Spock on how to deal with this enemy. But again, he chose not to. I don't see any good reason in that either.
YARN
Fleet Captain
Good point, but it is also one that implicitly concedes that this really is a moral dilemma. If Spock was sacrificing Rigel for the greater good, then we must admit that Spock was sacrificing/giving up on Rigel.
Spock's explicit reasoning, however, is that it is simply impossible to defeat the planet killer and that, therefore, it is illogical to attack it. By this logic, even if there were no other colonies or systems being threatened by the Planet Killer (say, for example, it was heading out of the glalxy rather than into it), Spock would still forgo offering a desperate defense on the grounds of logical futility. Spock would still say, in this case, that there only logical alternative is to pick up the captain and notify Starfleet command.
Spock is a utilitarian which makes him insensitive (even blind) to duties which don't factor into his cost-benefit analyses. Decker, on the other hand, is so grief and guilt stricken over the loss of his crew that he cannot see practical necessities that impinge on his absolute sense of obligation. In a sense, both characters exemplify undesirable aspects of deontology and act utilitarianism.
No doubt, Decker is not exactly right in the head, but I think he deserves a little more respect than some posters are willing to give him. If Kirk were in an episode where he lost McCoy, Spock, Uhura, Rand, Sulu, Scott, and the rest of the crew, we would completely empathize with his grief and his motivation to destroy the planet killer. Consider the episode "Obsession," for example. Even though Kirk is rather fixated in that episode, we are more sympathetic to him simply because he is "our Captain."
By warning Star Fleet, that COULD have saved Rigel.
YARN
Fleet Captain
The fact that they defeated the thing following Decker's strategy of decreasing proximity of attack, proves that they did, in fact, have a fighting chance.
If you are always listening to the cold-calculating robot, then you never fly into the asteroid field, buy a lottery ticket, defend the Alamo, or imagine the New Orleans Saints could ever win a superbowl. The thing is, however, that our best projections are only projections. Proof: Spock was wrong; there was a way for a single starship not only to combat it, but also to defeat it. Decker is willing to test the possible, and his hunch was right. The thing was stoppable.
It's amazing that, even after you've seen the episode and know that the Planet Killer was destroyed, that some of you continue to maintain the claim that it was unstoppable, and that they had "no chance." If there were zero chance of success, the thing would have destroyed Rigel.
That's what pluggers do. They keep at it 'till they find a way. Moreover, he wasn't doing the "same-old thing." Each attack was different. He varied his responses under the general strategy of "If you get close enough, you can deal a fatal blow."
The Enterprise is a ship; it is a means to and end. It isn't a person.
Kirk was stuck on another ship and incommunicado during the first attack. Spock is merely an XO and he is a Commodore. It is only when Spock makes it clear that he is unwilling to press the attack on behalf of the Rigel Colony that he intervenes.
Kirk immediately yells at him in earshot of the whole bridge crew and calls him a lunatic. Decker complies with Kirk's demand to talk to Spock and then gets kicked off the bridge. It's not like he had much of an opportunity to listen to Kirk.
But the Enterprise was not destroyed. Rigel was saved and it was because Decker pressed the attack with his very last breath.
Again, it is ridiculous to speak of certain death when the show itself depicts the Planet Killer as a defeatable foe.
Look at it this way. You are a father. Your house is rapidly burning to the ground. The fire dept. is nowhere to be seen or heard. One of your children is still inside the house, but three of your children are outside with mom. You know that your child is still alive because you can see and hear her screaming from her bedroom window. Now, if you run inside and save your child, this is a high risk/high reward scenario. If you win, your desperate effort preserves the family unit (everyone gets to be in the next Christmas photo). If you fail, you leave the three kids on the lawn without their father.
If you, as a father, felt it was your duty to attempt to save your child, I don't see how anyone would fault you for it. If you succeed, you will certainly be praised as a hero, and if you fail, the worst thing anyone could say is that it was a tragic and perhaps misguided attempt.
Would I stand by this ground and say that high risk/high reward is the right choice in this case? Well, I certainly don't see how I could casually dismiss it as the "wrong choice"
I am not saying that Decker was 100% there let alone 100% in the right. I am mostly attempting to fight off those who would write off this tragic figure as a mere "nutter"
The idea that Decker deserves props for ramming his shuttle down the PK's throat seems somewhat inappropriate, given that he never would have taken the shuttle if he hadn't been relieved of command to begin with. And if he hadn't been relieved of command he most likely wouldn't have been able to take a shuttle, as the Enterprise would have been destroyed while Decker kept trying to chip away at the PK from the outside.
There's no indication that Decker intended to engage in his Kirk-inspiring tactic until he was denied other options. Indeed, if that was a strategy that occurred to him, he could have brought it up at any time.
"Spock, wait...I've been doing this wrong...let's blow the Constellation's engines -inside- the planet killer...if that doesn't work, we have to warn Starfleet."
There's no indication that Decker intended to engage in his Kirk-inspiring tactic until he was denied other options. Indeed, if that was a strategy that occurred to him, he could have brought it up at any time.
"Spock, wait...I've been doing this wrong...let's blow the Constellation's engines -inside- the planet killer...if that doesn't work, we have to warn Starfleet."
YARN
Fleet Captain
And who does deserve props for the maneuver that ultimately saved Rigel?
Shall we praise Montgomery for being such a terrible security officer that he gets pwn'd by Decker?
Shall we praise Spock for relieving Decker of command?
Or, shall we praise the person who intentionally, and with full knowledge of the personal consequences, flew the shuttlecraft into the mouth of the Planet Killer, thus playing the only card left in his hand?
We can't know what he would have done, but we for a certainty what he did do, and that was to use a shuttle craft
as his last attempt to get even closer to the thing to strike a
blow.
Most importantly, consider the circumstance they were in at the end of attack #2. Are you sure Spock is the logical one in this circumstance?
DECKER: Mister Spock, status report.
SPOCK: Warp drive and deflectors will be out for a solar day. Repairs proceeding on transporter and communications.
SULU: It's closing with us again, sir.
DECKER: Maintain speed and distance.
----Notice here that Decker is NOT just attacking the thing headlong, but has decided, at this moment, to keep his distance to buy some time before he makes his next move. Hardly the actions of a madman-------
SULU: It's sucking in space rubble from those destroyed planets. Refueling itself.
SPOCK: We can maintain this speed for only seven hours before we exhaust our fuel, but it can refuel itself indefinitely.
DECKER: Then we'll have to fight it now before it gets any stronger.
SPOCK: Illogical. We cannot destroy it. Therefore, we cannot save Rigel. We must transport the Captain and the others from the Constellation and escape this thing's subspace interference in order to warn Starfleet Command.
Spock, however, is the one being illogical here. The Enterprise is no longer warp-capable (they're on emergency impulse power at this point) and the Doomsday Machine has suffered no appreciable damage.
Sure enough these lines follow...
SPOCK: At our present rate of consumption, we'll exhaust our impulse power long before then (fixing the warp-drive).
SULU: It's gaining on us, sir.
They cannot outrun the Planet Killer and they only have seven hours of fuel left. Since they cannot escape the offensive perimeter of the machine, and since the machine is gaining on them, there is NO way that they will be able to escape the machine's subspace interference to warn Starfleet Command at this point.
Running will only delay the inevitable and ensure that they are weakest at the moment when they will need most of their strength.
Moreover, it is perverse to suggest picking Captain Kirk and the skeleton of the Constellation, as they will simply be doomed too! Indeed, they should stay far away from the Constellation so that it may continue to serve as a life boat (and possible warning, if they survive long enough - don't forget that that ship is also impulse capable at this point so SHE could be the one to go warn Starfleet! But Spock's insistence on picking up his BFF wrecks any chance of this happening!
Doesn't matter. He played the hand he was dealt. What else can he do?
More importantly, even if he had remained in command and destroyed the Enterprise in another assault, this is more logical than attempting to limp away from a ship that is gaining on you.
You're again focusing on one detail without looking at the bigger picture. Yes, the Enterprise was not destroyed because Decker's continued strategy was aborted! Rigel was saved because Captain Kirk's quick thinking capitalized on Decker's suicide run to turn the Constellation into a suitable weapon against the planet killer.
Yes, the planet killer was defeated... but by a strategy that Decker failed to employ while he was in command. He was employing a conventional assault and had he continued, at the rate things were going, the Enterprise would have been destroyed... Don't you remember that the Enterprise was locked in the tractor beam, about to be taken in by the planet killer, but it was Captain Kirk who SAVED THEM from certain death by distracting the planet killer with the Constellation's phasers?
If the Constellation had no operable phaser banks, Decker would have destroyed the Enterprise!
And after Kirk rescues them... Decker's like "Good going, Jim Kirk. Together we'll defeat this thing." No... not the way Decker was going about it. He was just about to have killed them all.
YARN
Fleet Captain
So what? His duty was to give it his best shot, not to survive at all costs.
It's not like Kirk hasn't had his fat pulled out of the fire (when he pulled some outrageous stunt) on occasion too.
I've been watching the episode again, to refresh my memory on certain points... the remastered version is amazing! I really like what they did with it.
My only major gripe is with some of the ship positioning... why on Earth would the more maneuverable Enterprise allow itself to get into the firing line of the planet killer? They take a beating from it. And then you see the Enterprise cruising very close along side the hull, repeatedly firing phasers at point blank range, as if the planet killer is barely standing still. Why not continue hiding along side it, rather than getting in the way? Sulu reports 0% damage, phasers being totally ineffective. But Decker has them continue this attack... until the Enterprise shields are completely knocked down. They were then caught in the tractor beam, about to head to certain doom. Decker demanded they continue firing phasers, despite this case. Spock told him it was suicide, and by that fact he could relieve him of command. Decker conceded, and they then tried to pull away... but unfortunately, not enough power. The Enterprise was doomed, if it weren't for the Constellation distracting the planet killer with its phasers.
Funny thing... when Decker took the shuttlecraft to go after the planet killer, they were many hours away from it. And yet, he caught up to it very quickly. How on Earth is a puny little shuttlecraft able to do that? I think another point of weakness in the story.
Another thing that always bothered me about this is the relative scale. The planet killer was "miles" long... but we see it's probably about 20 starships in length. Something that small can cut a planet into rubble? It seems seriously out of scale.
Anyway, it's quite a good finish. I like the way Kirk and Spock walk in front of the view screen and you see the dead planet killer still floating in view.
On a side note, I wonder how the Borg would have stood up to this thing? Also... perhaps it might have been salvageable after being knocked out of commission. Starfleet could research the weapon for use as a planetary defense device (of course, appropriately programmed so it doesn't go renegade).
My only major gripe is with some of the ship positioning... why on Earth would the more maneuverable Enterprise allow itself to get into the firing line of the planet killer? They take a beating from it. And then you see the Enterprise cruising very close along side the hull, repeatedly firing phasers at point blank range, as if the planet killer is barely standing still. Why not continue hiding along side it, rather than getting in the way? Sulu reports 0% damage, phasers being totally ineffective. But Decker has them continue this attack... until the Enterprise shields are completely knocked down. They were then caught in the tractor beam, about to head to certain doom. Decker demanded they continue firing phasers, despite this case. Spock told him it was suicide, and by that fact he could relieve him of command. Decker conceded, and they then tried to pull away... but unfortunately, not enough power. The Enterprise was doomed, if it weren't for the Constellation distracting the planet killer with its phasers.
Funny thing... when Decker took the shuttlecraft to go after the planet killer, they were many hours away from it. And yet, he caught up to it very quickly. How on Earth is a puny little shuttlecraft able to do that? I think another point of weakness in the story.
Another thing that always bothered me about this is the relative scale. The planet killer was "miles" long... but we see it's probably about 20 starships in length. Something that small can cut a planet into rubble? It seems seriously out of scale.
Anyway, it's quite a good finish. I like the way Kirk and Spock walk in front of the view screen and you see the dead planet killer still floating in view.
On a side note, I wonder how the Borg would have stood up to this thing? Also... perhaps it might have been salvageable after being knocked out of commission. Starfleet could research the weapon for use as a planetary defense device (of course, appropriately programmed so it doesn't go renegade).
KIRK: Whatever it is, we can't let it go beyond us to the next solar system. We have to stop it.
Now this was after Decker came on to the Enterprise's bridge, but before he even said one word, before Sulu figured that the Rigel colony was in danger. Kirk had already decided to stop the DM. At no point during the episode did Kirk ever indicate that Spock's idea of breaking off and communicating with Starfleet was going to happen by his order.
DECKER: You said it yourself, Spock. There is no way to blast through the hull of that machine, so I'm going to take this thing right down its throat.
What the repeated strafing run on the DM taught Decker was that the DM's hull was invincible, he needed a weak spot. Process of elimination left the forward opening. It possible/likely he came to this realization during the time period the Enterprise was being held in the DM's tractor beam. Decker had already undertaken at least two strafing runs at close range, while the DM was pulling the Enterprise in Decker would have had a close up view straight down it's throat, again this likely is when the idea began to form. After firing one last time to distract the DM away from Kirk and the Constellation, Decker initially turned away, his stated intent was to turn back and continue the attack.
If he had been able to do so, I think the next attack by the Enterprise would have been in some fashion "down the throat."
---------
Going over the transcripts of the episode, something struck me. While being attack by Nomad, Kirk tried to communicate. While being attacked by V'Ger, Kirk tried to communicate. Pretty much whoever was attacking, Kirk would at least attempt to talk.
There was never (on screen) any attempt to communicate with the DM.
OOOO
Now this was after Decker came on to the Enterprise's bridge, but before he even said one word, before Sulu figured that the Rigel colony was in danger. Kirk had already decided to stop the DM. At no point during the episode did Kirk ever indicate that Spock's idea of breaking off and communicating with Starfleet was going to happen by his order.
DECKER: You said it yourself, Spock. There is no way to blast through the hull of that machine, so I'm going to take this thing right down its throat.
What the repeated strafing run on the DM taught Decker was that the DM's hull was invincible, he needed a weak spot. Process of elimination left the forward opening. It possible/likely he came to this realization during the time period the Enterprise was being held in the DM's tractor beam. Decker had already undertaken at least two strafing runs at close range, while the DM was pulling the Enterprise in Decker would have had a close up view straight down it's throat, again this likely is when the idea began to form. After firing one last time to distract the DM away from Kirk and the Constellation, Decker initially turned away, his stated intent was to turn back and continue the attack.
If he had been able to do so, I think the next attack by the Enterprise would have been in some fashion "down the throat."
---------
Going over the transcripts of the episode, something struck me. While being attack by Nomad, Kirk tried to communicate. While being attacked by V'Ger, Kirk tried to communicate. Pretty much whoever was attacking, Kirk would at least attempt to talk.
There was never (on screen) any attempt to communicate with the DM.
OOOO
KIRK: Open Hailing Frequencies. Doomsday Machine. This is Captain Kirk of the Enterprise. Your mission is to destroy all planets and all life in star system?
DDM: That is my purpose.
KIRK: And what happens if you should fail?
DDM: I self-destruct. Irrelevant. I never fail.
KIRK: You are WRONG! You missed the inner two planets and left the Constellation with one crewmember still alive. And you left this ship intact to harass you to the next star system. You failed your mission Doomsday Machine!
DDM: .... <BOOM>
SPOCK: (whispering to himself) How does he do that???
DDM: That is my purpose.
KIRK: And what happens if you should fail?
DDM: I self-destruct. Irrelevant. I never fail.
KIRK: You are WRONG! You missed the inner two planets and left the Constellation with one crewmember still alive. And you left this ship intact to harass you to the next star system. You failed your mission Doomsday Machine!
DDM: .... <BOOM>
SPOCK: (whispering to himself) How does he do that???
YARN
Fleet Captain
KIRK: Open Hailing Frequencies. Doomsday Machine. This is Captain Kirk of the Enterprise. Your mission is to destroy all planets and all life in star system?
DDM: That is my purpose.
KIRK: And what happens if you should fail?
DDM: I self-destruct. Irrelevant. I never fail.
KIRK: You are WRONG! You missed the inner two planets and left the Constellation with one crewmember still alive. And you left this ship intact to harass you to the next star system. You failed your mission Doomsday Machine!
DDM: .... <BOOM>
SPOCK: (whispering to himself) How does he do that???
Yep, that's the classic Kirk vs. the Computer Strategy.
Kirk's Playbook
1. Women - Smack them, kiss them, and then they will betray their people to help you.
2. Powerful Computers
-----a. Make it compute itself to death (eg., calculate Pi)
-----b. Catch it in a performative contradiction.
3. Powerful Aliens
-----a. Play dead
-----b. Corbomite
4. Worst Case Scenario
-----a. If it is an engineering problem yell at Scotty (threatening to fire him is a good motivator).
-----b. If it is a medical problem yell at McCoy.
-----c. For all other problems yell at Spock.
You're right. I had noticed that too last night. So while Spock was pontificating about warning Starfleet, indeed that was not yet going to be the decision as he was determined to pick up Captain Kirk. Perhaps he was caught up in the wrong logic. While he thought Decker was being too ambitious with a head-on assault, because of his track record with the Constellation, he needed an excuse to get him to cut off the attack. What I'd have preferred him to say is:
Spock: "Commodore, a direct assault on the planet killer is suicide. You've proven that. Yes, we do need to stop it, but we must devise a better strategy. With the combined wisdom of me, yourself, and Captain Kirk, I am hopeful we may indeed achieve a better one. But to continue the attack without further analysis of the problem is folly at this point."
Well, we don't know really know that. It's pure speculation, because he didn't offer up that idea before he was relieved. He kept telling Kirk that he was in command now and he is going to continue the attack, rather than saying something like this:
Decker: "Kirk, you yourself said we have to stop this thing. I certainly don't want to wreck your ship, but we also have a duty to save Rigel. Now I've learned a lot from our last engagement. Conventional attack from the outside is pointless as there doesn't appear to be any weakness. The only other alternative I see at this point is to destroy it from within--send in some kind of explosive device."
Kirk: "I agree with your updated strategy sir, but I am the commissioned captain of that vessel. What we do will be on my decision. And it's of the utmost importance we come up with a viable plan without carelessly risking the ship any further."
As for communicating with it... Spock indicated that it's basically a robot vessel following some kind of automated programming. Apparently there wasn't any kind of communications mechanism detected that would make it possible to hail it. That's my assumption.
Nevertheless, "know your enemy" is a decider in most battles. Kirk attempted to communicate with Nomad despite finding out that he was facing a tiny object, a supposed automaton rather than a crewed vessel. Kirk communicated with many other known automatons, too - most often in an attempt to find out their goals and plans.
There were a few times he dropped that ball, though. He didn't communicate with the Salt Vampire, and didn't press Dr. Carter on whether/how he had communicated with it (but admittedly the critter played hard to get). He didn't communicate with the Space Amoeba (but again the cultural gap may have been too wide, and the critter would have had little interest in communicating with tiny impurities in its food). He didn't communicate with Vaal (and for this it's difficult to find any excuse, because interaction with humanoids apparently played a big part in Vaal's activities and goals).
Finally, he didn't communicate with the DDM. As with Vaal, odds are high that the victims of the DDM featured in its motivations and goals somehow - if we accept the idea that the device was a weapon. But that assumption may be faulty, because the weapon didn't demonstrate a grasp of military priorities. And of course, communication would further be hampered by the jamming of the usual Starfleet channels. What do we make of this latter fact? Did the DDM deliberately stop communications, perhaps because those would be a threat to it and its mission? In that case, Kirk and Decker ought to have paid a lot of attention to striking at this potential weakness of the device. Or was the jamming just a side product of the machinery of the DDM? Would this lack of deliberation indicate the device wasn't intended to be a weapon?
One further approach might have been to use the transporter as a weapon. Its operation did not seem to be unduly hampered by the jamming, and wasn't explicated as being blocked by the DDM hull. A boarding attempt might have been made, or a bomb might have been planted by teleporting. But we might safely assume that Spock at some point established the hull as impervious to transporter beams, and we missed the dialogue.
Timo Saloniemi
There were a few times he dropped that ball, though. He didn't communicate with the Salt Vampire, and didn't press Dr. Carter on whether/how he had communicated with it (but admittedly the critter played hard to get). He didn't communicate with the Space Amoeba (but again the cultural gap may have been too wide, and the critter would have had little interest in communicating with tiny impurities in its food). He didn't communicate with Vaal (and for this it's difficult to find any excuse, because interaction with humanoids apparently played a big part in Vaal's activities and goals).
Finally, he didn't communicate with the DDM. As with Vaal, odds are high that the victims of the DDM featured in its motivations and goals somehow - if we accept the idea that the device was a weapon. But that assumption may be faulty, because the weapon didn't demonstrate a grasp of military priorities. And of course, communication would further be hampered by the jamming of the usual Starfleet channels. What do we make of this latter fact? Did the DDM deliberately stop communications, perhaps because those would be a threat to it and its mission? In that case, Kirk and Decker ought to have paid a lot of attention to striking at this potential weakness of the device. Or was the jamming just a side product of the machinery of the DDM? Would this lack of deliberation indicate the device wasn't intended to be a weapon?
One further approach might have been to use the transporter as a weapon. Its operation did not seem to be unduly hampered by the jamming, and wasn't explicated as being blocked by the DDM hull. A boarding attempt might have been made, or a bomb might have been planted by teleporting. But we might safely assume that Spock at some point established the hull as impervious to transporter beams, and we missed the dialogue.
Timo Saloniemi
Sure he did, or tried too, it's the scene where Spock is struck by lightning.
I think you're referring to the attack on the industrial city of Coventry, Britain in November 1940. The British knew through reading German coded transmissions that there was going to be a large air raid but not the intended target, the myth the the British PM somehow allowed the attack to take place to protect the fact that the code had been broken has through the years been completely debunked. The British would commonly use the information obtained through code breaking to protect themselves, Coventry was a major industrial city producing aircraft and munitions and would have been defended for those two reasons alone.
Sorry. My mistake. (Two in a row yesterday. I must be getting too little sleep.)
On the issue of communication attempts with the DDM, are we to think that System L-374 was under constant jamming when Kirk first arrived there? Lt. Palmer only remarked on the jamming when Kirk (apparently) asked her to hail the wounded starship. Did she not notice it before? Or had dialogue on the low quality of the Constellation's original message already taken place off screen and our heroes had resigned to the fact that there might be adverse conditions at L-374?
The other option is that the DDM turned on/up the jamming when it detected the arrival of the second starship. That'd lend more credence to the theory that it was a deliberate, malevolent weapon rather than some sort of a Vogon un-terraforming project.
Timo Saloniemi
