Was Spock wrong to abandon the Rigel colonies?

[BillJ]

In The Doomsday Machine, early on Spock says their is no way for a single ship to defeat the planet killer due to its' solid neutronium hull.

Even after Kirk states, from the Constellation, that they cannot allow it to move on to the next solar system... Spock seems eager to just move away and warn Starfleet. He never seems to research or offer any ideas. Once Decker assumes command Spock almost seems like a kid who is going to 'take his ball and go home'.

So Spock was willing to abandon millions to a horrible fate, so he could warn Starfleet (we see the same issue crop up in Star Trek 2009).

It isn't like Rigel is some primitive world either. It seems to me that the Rigel colonies would have enough space traffic that someone would be able to move beyond subspace interference to send a general distress signal if the Enterprise failed to stop the planet killer.

So does anyone else think Spock was wrong?

 

[Christopher]

Given the information Spock had at the time, his decision was entirely valid. If it was impossible for the Enterprise alone to defeat the planet-killer, then staying to fight would've been foolhardy. Escaping to notify Starfleet made more sense in that it might allow a larger defensive force to assemble at Rigel in time, or at least to allow a portion of the Rigel colonies' population to be evacuated.

After all, Commodore Decker didn't have the same good reason for resisting the suggestion that Kirk did in the 2009 movie. It was never actually stated in "The Doomsday Machine" that the planet-killer would reach Rigel before a defense could be mounted. Decker didn't have a reason for staying to fight beyond obsession and vengeance. He didn't have a plan beyond repeating the same futile gesture that had failed before -- which fits Santayana's definition of insanity.

True, it was later discovered that it was possible for them to defeat the planet-killer without calling in reinforcements. Does that make Spock wrong? No, because that information was not available to him at the time he made his decision. Given the information he did have -- that one ship couldn't beat the thing alone -- the only sensible choice was to retreat and call for backup. We have no evidence to suggest that wouldn't have worked.

 

[BillJ]

I'm not sure I agree with you, Christopher.

DECKER: You can't let that reach Rigel. Why, millions of innocent people would die.
SPOCK: I am aware of the Rigel system's population, Commodore, but we are only one ship. Our deflector shields are strained, our subspace transmitter is useless. Logically, our primary duty is to survive in order to warn Starfleet Command.
DECKER: Our primary duty is to maintain life and safety of Federation planets. Do you deny that?

This exchange makes it seem like either they attempt to save Rigel or they go and contact Starfleet.

 

[Christopher]

All that exchange indicates is that Decker was claiming that was the choice. But Decker was hardly a reliable narrator, and we have no external evidence to support his allegation.

Besides, the bottom line is that, as far as anyone knew at that point, it was impossible for the Enterprise to defeat the planet-killer by itself. Even if Decker was right that retreating wouldn't save Rigel, Spock was right that attacking wouldn't save Rigel either and would just get them all killed for no reason. At least retreating would let them get out of range of the planet-killer's subspace interference, send a warning, and allow an evacuation to begin. Getting themselves destroyed before they warned Starfleet of the threat would've been a dereliction of their duty and would've left the Rigel colonies even more defenseless.

 

[Gary7]

It was essentially suicide to stay and fight. Decker proved that by the condition of his vessel... almost worthless hulk incapable of doing much of anything, let alone continue the fight. Spock had made a logical decision. Why stay and fight a nearly hopeless battle where Rigel would perish anyway? Leave and warn Starfleet so that a more massive engagement can be had. Certainly two well equipped and fully functional starships would have a much better chance of fighting the doomsday machine, mainly because of its simplistic programming--go after anything that just attacked it. They could play cat-and-mouse until the machine is severely low on power... then as it heads off to consume more planetary material, they could finish it off. Or until someone would have the bright idea of a matter/anti-matter bomb to be shoved down the maw of that thing to detonate and finish it off. And that's what Kirk managed to think of--use the Constellation as that bomb. Only, there had to be that dramatic touch of someone staying behind to throw the switch in the last few seconds.

One does have to wonder why Spock with all of his brimming intelligence didn't manage to think of such a great solution. I surmise it's because Spock doesn't have the liberty of thinking outside the box as much as an "illogical human"... He didn't think of the Constellation as a possible weapon--he probably saw it as a hopeless wreck that had no use.

 

[Ssosmcin]

And, you know, all they have to do is get beyond the range of the planet killer to escape the subspace interference. It doesn't matter what direction they go in. Assuming the PK's jamming range isn't totally ridiculous, Spock could have very well headed toward Rigel, made the call to Starfleet as soon as they could, then made their stand - or start evacuating. Actually, I could see Decker agreeing with this, which would remove the central conflict. That's no fun...

 

[YARN]

This exchange makes it seem like either they attempt to save Rigel or they go and contact Starfleet.

The mechanism underlying the choice is interference, right? To contact Starfleet they would need to far enough get away from the device's subspace interference, which would mean giving it an unencumbered head start to Rigel.

 

[BillJ]

All that exchange indicates is that Decker was claiming that was the choice. But Decker was hardly a reliable narrator, and we have no external evidence to support his allegation.

But isn't that why Spock was there? To show us the error of Decker's narration.

At the end of the day, Spock didn't even try to offer up alternative courses of action. He had made up his mind that they couldn't save Rigel and that was all there was to it. Even after his captain had told him they couldn't allow it past them to the next star system (presumably Rigel).

Once Decker took command and stated his intent to take down the planet killer, shouldn't have Spock been working on a better solution than taking it 'head on'? If that had been Kirk in the center seat, would Spock have pouted or would he have been working on alternate strategies to stop it?

Spock's actions in this episode reminded me of Riker in Chain of Command I/II.

 

[YARN]

And, you know, all they have to do is get beyond the range of the planet killer to escape the subspace interference. It doesn't matter what direction they go in. Assuming the PK's jamming range isn't totally ridiculous, Spock could have very well headed toward Rigel, made the call to Starfleet as soon as they could, then made their stand - or start evacuating. Actually, I could see Decker agreeing with this, which would remove the central conflict. That's no fun... But a few lines of dialog could fix that and still have Decker insist they battle the thing before it can start eating Rigel.

I like how you attempt to deflect the counter-hypothesis by characterizing it as "totally ridiculous."

Also, they suffered damage to subspace communications which might effectively increase the Doomsday Machine's jamming/interference range.

__________________________________________________

MCCOY: No casualties, Mister Spock. How are we doing?

SPOCK: We have outrun it, Doctor.

DECKER: Status report.

SPOCK: Impulse and warp engines operative, transporter and communications under repair. Random chance seems to have operated in our favor.

MCCOY: In plain, non-Vulcan English, we've been lucky.

SPOCK: I believe I said that, Doctor.

SULU: It's veering off, back on course for the next solar system. The Rigel colony, sir.

SPOCK: Evidently programmed to ignore anything as small as a ship beyond a certain radius. We'll maintain a discreet distance and circle back to pick up the Captain.

DECKER: You can't let that reach Rigel. Why, millions of innocent people would die.

SPOCK: I am aware of the Rigel system's population, Commodore, but we are only one ship. Our deflector shields are strained, our subspace transmitter is useless. Logically, our primary duty is to survive in order to warn Starfleet Command. [/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[BillJ]

The more I talk about this episode the more it reminds me how much Star Trek 2009 lifted from it.

 

[Gary7]

At the end of the day, Spock didn't even try to offer up alternative courses of action. He had made up his mind that they couldn't save Rigel and that was all there was to it. Even after his captain had told him they couldn't allow it past them to the next star system (presumably Rigel).

In addition to what YARN pointed out in the transcript, about the subspace transmitter being useless (probably because of the relative position to the planet killer), Spock had not seen any other courses of action. What could there be, with only one fully operable starship on hand? What, try to fight it off, which would stall it from reaching Rigel, but eventually the Enterprise might end up as the Constellation or far worse... and the planet killer would continue on its course to Rigel. Again, Spock didn't manage to think outside the box and realize that the Constellation could be used as a weapon--a matter/anti-matter bomb. Kirk got to that idea first.

 

[Gary7]

The more I talk about this episode the more it reminds me how much Star Trek 2009 lifted from it.

Akin to how Star Trek TMP lifted from "The Changeling".

 

[BillJ]

The more I talk about this episode the more it reminds me how much Star Trek 2009 lifted from it.

Akin to how Star Trek TMP lifted from "The Changeling".

Can't argue that one!

 

[Ssosmcin]

I like how you attempt to deflect the counter-hypothesis by characterizing it as "totally ridiculous."

Thanks. I was thinking that the planet killer's jamming range actually extending all the way to Rigel might be a little much. They don't say how far it is, only that it's the next closest solar system in the direction the planet killer is heading. And since they found the Constellation in system L374, odds are Rigel isn't around the corner (space is pretty darned big). Anyway, if subspace comm is being jammed from L374 to Rigel (likely multi-directionally), that would kick up some interest. Using non-subspace signals, someone would have sent out a few queries, maybe even reached someone, like a freighter or something.

Also, if they can establish ship to ship comm, then they can zoom close enough to one of the Rigel planets and call them, as long as they don't need to use subspace. The Enterprise can outrun the PK, even on impulse. Making a run for Rigel would actually be the best course of action under the circumstances and the information they had at hand. And if the subspace transmitter is useless, how will they warn starfleet command then? By going to the nearest working subspace communicator. Rigel is closest. Go to Rigel, warn them and starfleet. Assuming they get there before the PK arrives and jams them again. That would be the only real flaw. Granted, it's a big 'un.

 

[BillJ]

By going to the nearest working subspace communicator. Rigel is closest. Go to Rigel, warn them and starfleet.

But if the Enterprise only has fuel for seven hours and the planet killer is right on their tail... it makes it fairly academic that your going to have to fight it at some point or go in a completely different direction and hope you can repair the subspace transmitter (and escape interference) before it hits Rigel.

DECKER: Mister Spock, status report.
SPOCK: Warp drive and deflectors will be out for a solar day. Repairs proceeding on transporter and communications.
SULU: It's closing with us again, sir.
DECKER: Maintain speed and distance.
SULU: It's sucking in space rubble from those destroyed planets. Refueling itself.
SPOCK: We can maintain this speed for only seven hours before we exhaust our fuel, but it can refuel itself indefinitely.
DECKER: Then we'll have to fight it now before it gets any stronger.

 

[YARN]

I like how you attempt to deflect the counter-hypothesis by characterizing it as "totally ridiculous."

Thanks. I was thinking that the planet killer's jamming range actually extending all the way to Rigel might be a little much. They don't say how far it is, only that it's the next closest solar system in the direction the planet killer is heading. And since they found the Constellation in system L374, odds are Rigel isn't around the corner (space is pretty darned big). Anyway, if subspace comm is being jammed from L374 to Rigel (likely multi-directionally), that would kick up some interest. Using non-subspace signals, someone would have sent out a few queries, maybe even reached someone, like a freighter or something.

Thing is, it's not clear how far they are from Rigel. Going by Decker's argument, on impulse, it seems that for the Enterprise to escape the jamming and come back, they'd take more time than they have to stop the machine from reaching Rigel. But at the same time, they are outrunning the planet killer, so the damned thing isn't in a hurry. Nor reason it should be, it just ate a solar system. If they stop pissing it off, it might cut back on using energy until it needs to.

Also, if they can establish ship to ship comm, then they can zoom close enough to one of the Rigel planets and call them, as long as they don't need to use subspace. The Enterprise can outrun the PK, even on impulse. Making a run for Rigel would actually be the best course of action under the circumstances and the information they had at hand. And if the subspace transmitter is useless, how will they warn starfleet command then? By going to the nearest working subspace communicator. Rigel is closest. Go to Rigel, warn them and starfleet. Assuming they get there before the PK arrives and jams them again. That would be the only real flaw. Granted, it's a big 'un.

No-subspace communication means slower-than-light communication, which means you'd pretty much have to already be at Rigel to give them the warning.

If they are both heading to Rigel, then they will both be following, more or less, the same trajectory. If you are just ahead, or just behind, or parallel to the planet killer, you will still be in its range. If you take a suboptimal trajectory to get out of its range, you cede the most direct path to Rigel to the machine.

At any rate, Kirk's lines are meant to establish some plausibility for Decker's pursuit. The guy is not completely bonkers, but he is unfit for duty and his judgment is impaired. If Decker's reasoning were completely bonkers, we'd have to ask why the crew follows his orders at all.

 

[Christopher]

The more I talk about this episode the more it reminds me how much Star Trek 2009 lifted from it.

Sometimes the new movie is criticized for being too unfaithful to TOS, but sometimes it's criticized for borrowing too much from TOS. You just can't win.

Anyway, I think what Spock meant by "our subspace transmitter is useless" is that "it's useless as long as we're within the planet-killer's subspace interference field." Spock did say that communications were under repair, meaning that they'd be fixed soon. And if they had no way of communicating with Starfleet at all, then his very next sentence wouldn't have been "Logically, our primary duty is to survive in order to warn Starfleet Command."

 

[Timo]

Kirk got to that idea first.

Did he?

Decker's claim that his crew beamed down to the planet in order to evade a known planet killer never made an ounce of sense. Either Decker was trying to hide his guilt in deliberate mass murder when sprouting this bullshit story... Or then in his sorry state, he forgot to tell the heroes what the beam-down had been all about.

The Constellation was the most survivable thing in the sector, battle damage or no battle damage; death everywhere else would be much quicker and much more certain. Why abandon her? And why evacuate to a planet soon to be eaten? The obvious answer would be that the Constellation would soon no longer be, whereas the planet would soon be safe. That is, Decker would take down the DDM with one well-aimed starship...

He'd drop that plan once a better one presented itself (in the form of another starship), of course. But he'd return to it soon enough, and by doing so tip off Kirk enough to allow him to complete the job.

Either that, or then Decker was a murderous maniac and/or his entire crew a bunch of suicidees. Which takes us to this, I guess:

If Decker's reasoning were completely bonkers, we'd have to ask why the crew follows his orders at all.

But Decker isn't actually giving any reasoning, and Spock isn't actually countering any. Spock is merely saying that he doesn't find any merit in Decker's so-called plans, and thereafter ignoring them and him. Decker only gets his voice heard again when he 1) silences Spock with Rules & Regulations and later when he 2) backs down from said plans after demonstrating their ineffectiveness.

It's possible that Decker is completely bonkers. Kirk often appeared to be, too - but very seldom actually was. The crew might have learned to see through that trick already... Although this time to their own peril.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ssosmcin]

But if the Enterprise only has fuel for seven hours and the planet killer is right on their tail... it makes it fairly academic that your going to have to fight it at some point or go in a completely different direction and hope you can repair the subspace transmitter (and escape interference) before it hits Rigel.

Thing is, it's not clear how far they are from Rigel. Going by Decker's argument, on impulse, it seems that for the Enterprise to escape the jamming and come back, they'd take more time than they have to stop the machine from reaching Rigel. But at the same time, they are outrunning the planet killer, so the damned thing isn't in a hurry. Nor reason it should be, it just ate a solar system. If they stop pissing it off, it might cut back on using energy until it needs to.

Yeah, the seven hours of fuel (jeez, they're not gonna explore too far with that cruddy mileage) does throw a monkey wrench into it. I can see how going to Rigel may not be the super best thing if the DDM is right behind them. But if it's going at full warp through the galaxy, I'd think they'd have heard about it beforehand. Unless they're just inside the galactic barrier and it only came through a little while before. It's most likely just lumbering through the stars, eating and burping. If it doesn't see a threat, it would probably power down and meander over to the next food source.

Besides, the Enterprise needs to get gas from somewhere. Where's the closest place? Rigel? Or is there a space station nearby?

 

[BillJ]

The more I talk about this episode the more it reminds me how much Star Trek 2009 lifted from it.

Sometimes the new movie is criticized for being too unfaithful to TOS, but sometimes it's criticized for borrowing too much from TOS. You just can't win.

I've always criticized Star Trek 2009 as feeling like a 'CliffsNotes' version of The Original Series.