Ah yes, the movie where every light source is blown out, everything is put together like there's zero depth of field, and every shot is filtered within an inch of its life.I remember that. The lead looked so uninterested in every scene.
Was "Shadow Guy" ever revealed?
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I'd buy it been Archer if it were some alternate-future twisted version of him, but I wouldn't have wanted him to be the definitely-going-to--happen prime version of him.
I prefer the Mike Sussman bio version of Archer that he just a stand up guy through and through- became Ambassador to Andor, UFP President, and died in 2245 the day after touring the new USS Enterprise (in my head alongside T'Pol who would also still be alive, til at least 2270, going from her age in the episode E2)
I prefer the Mike Sussman bio version of Archer that he just a stand up guy through and through- became Ambassador to Andor, UFP President, and died in 2245 the day after touring the new USS Enterprise (in my head alongside T'Pol who would also still be alive, til at least 2270, going from her age in the episode E2)
They should have
Well, wouldn't the whole idea be that all of that future stuff was happening so that Archer could return to his own time and fulfill that destiny and ensure those events?
Well, wouldn't the whole idea be that all of that future stuff was happening so that Archer could return to his own time and fulfill that destiny and ensure those events?
Well the timey wimey stuff in ENT got confusing. In the first two seasons it always seemed "the future" Daniels knew about and was from, and those little references to "the Fedearation" were obviously winks to us the audience as we knew what he was referring to- clearly TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY.
But then season 3 has Daniels actually from an alternate future where the Delphic Expanse never stopped growing and by the 26th Century "extends fifty thousand light years in all directions, and it is growing." So two hundred years before that can't have been TOS-VOY as we knew them.
Which for me at least TOS-VOY is the future after Archer and co saved everything, ENT is their and past and always was, like it or not.
I say this just because in another thread someone was moaning that ENT is it's own thing and nothing to do with TOS-VOY. I think that's rubbish. There are a couple of continuity errors like Worf in TNG saying "there were no phasers in the 22nd centruy" but so what, every series has a tonne of con errors.
I hate the small mindedness of saying "ooh well they never mention Archer or the NX-01", again, so what? It was 220 years ago from their perspective. I'm aware of history but don't go around in 2018 talking about what happened in 1800 all the time.
We know almost nothing about what went in Federation history between say 2300-2340. It doesn't mean nothing did. And if a Trek show came along set in that time pertiod and showed the USS Something commanded by Captain Whoever, are people gonna whine "ooh well why have we never heard of them before?"
And my favourite is "ooh the ship looks more advanced than TOS." erm, my laptop in 1999 looked more advanced than anything in TOS, never mind my iPhone of 2018. What stupid arguments they all are.
ENT's not even my fave or second fave Trek show, but I do feel it gets bashed way too harshly on this board sometimes. Sorry, rant over/
But then season 3 has Daniels actually from an alternate future where the Delphic Expanse never stopped growing and by the 26th Century "extends fifty thousand light years in all directions, and it is growing." So two hundred years before that can't have been TOS-VOY as we knew them.
Which for me at least TOS-VOY is the future after Archer and co saved everything, ENT is their and past and always was, like it or not.
I say this just because in another thread someone was moaning that ENT is it's own thing and nothing to do with TOS-VOY. I think that's rubbish. There are a couple of continuity errors like Worf in TNG saying "there were no phasers in the 22nd centruy" but so what, every series has a tonne of con errors.
I hate the small mindedness of saying "ooh well they never mention Archer or the NX-01", again, so what? It was 220 years ago from their perspective. I'm aware of history but don't go around in 2018 talking about what happened in 1800 all the time.
We know almost nothing about what went in Federation history between say 2300-2340. It doesn't mean nothing did. And if a Trek show came along set in that time pertiod and showed the USS Something commanded by Captain Whoever, are people gonna whine "ooh well why have we never heard of them before?"
And my favourite is "ooh the ship looks more advanced than TOS." erm, my laptop in 1999 looked more advanced than anything in TOS, never mind my iPhone of 2018. What stupid arguments they all are.
ENT's not even my fave or second fave Trek show, but I do feel it gets bashed way too harshly on this board sometimes. Sorry, rant over/
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Seems the Discovery VFX lads liked it
Trapped in the future, Jonathan Archer finds himself in communication with a Suliban Cabal, putting things right that once went wrong and hoping each time that his next communication will lead to the way home.
Indeed. Although frowned upon in the world of BBS's, the 10 year gap of posts' culminating to the recent posts of the past few days are very interesting. It's almost as though the events of Enterprise are still being percolated through our collective brain matter... somehow.
For example, this thread was started in 2007, two years after Enterprise ended a few years short of a full series. Even two years after the finale, insiders claimed Future Guy was nobody - or they hadn't figured out who he was. There was a lot of guessing in this thread who he really was - a lot of it sarcastic. Plus, now we have novels and other media that take liberties with the canon of events past the ENT finale.
Knowing this, we are lucky we are stuck with the canonical mystery because Archer's father (*yawn) and a future Borg (*yawn) both seem highly forgettable.
I do love the idea (revelation) that Future Guy *should* be Archer. It makes Enterprise as a whole seem much more planned out and nuanced. What a scene that would have been - Archer meeting Archer.
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To me, there was no one that future guy could've been that would be satisfying. Even during ENT's original run, i would think this. I would try to come up with candidates that would make sense but nothing would've worked IMO. Who knows maybe they would've blown me away with an option I haven't considered but to me, there was no one he could've been without it being lame.
If they had the foresight to plan this out (realistically impossible though), FG should've had some connection throughout all of the 90s ST series. It would've been a good way to cap off that era, rather than the Riker holodeck episode.
If they had the foresight to plan this out (realistically impossible though), FG should've had some connection throughout all of the 90s ST series. It would've been a good way to cap off that era, rather than the Riker holodeck episode.
Could Shadow Guy then undo Archer wiping out an entire sentient species over a really odd interpretation of a directive that hadn't been invented yet?
That guy is creepy and cheesy.
I would have preferred a prequel to focus more on the pre Kirk days and the newness of space travel to humans rather than time travel beyond Voyager. I'm guessing they were afraid the audience would prefer technology beyond rather than the building up due to discoveries and learning.
I would have preferred a prequel to focus more on the pre Kirk days and the newness of space travel to humans rather than time travel beyond Voyager. I'm guessing they were afraid the audience would prefer technology beyond rather than the building up due to discoveries and learning.
"Future Guy" was BOTH Rick Berman and Brannon Braga. They were sick of doing Star Trek, so were trying to END the franchise once and for all. 
Not officially but Braga said a few years ago it might have been a future evil version of Jonathan Archer which is interesting.
It explains why future guy disappears when Archer is taken out of the timeline in 'Shockwave', there's also a point where Silik is trying to contact future guy and Archer jumps out. Could have been clues.
I always thought it was Daniels or a future version of him. That or some Romulan. I think definitely they would have made it someone we know for added shock value.
Wonder if Discovery will pick this one up.
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Please god no
I think he'd turn out to be Mirror Archer.
Somehow not poisoned. Drugged by the Empress, who preferred to delay his execution.
She shoved him into a spacesuit, to die slowly drifting through interphasic space...
And from there, he ends up in the 29th Century with all that knowledge of Prime Archer and his missions.
Fixated by his inferiority complex, he uses the Suliban to change history, so Archer's achievements seem more of a long list of screw ups.
Somehow not poisoned. Drugged by the Empress, who preferred to delay his execution.
She shoved him into a spacesuit, to die slowly drifting through interphasic space...
And from there, he ends up in the 29th Century with all that knowledge of Prime Archer and his missions.
Fixated by his inferiority complex, he uses the Suliban to change history, so Archer's achievements seem more of a long list of screw ups.
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Interesting to see this still being discussed years after the fact. For my money, the whole Temporal Cold War was one of the most FUBAR storylines any Trek series has ever attempted. There was pretty much zero chance from the beginning that it would wind up making any sense, whether Shadow Guy or any other players behind the scenes were ultimately revealed or not.
(I'm not saying it's completely impossible to do a good story involving conflict over control of history — a few novelists over the years have pulled it off reasonably well. But they've consistently approached it from the point of view of the behind-the-scenes players, having them operate "outside of time" in some fashion that lends coherence to the narrative... not from the POV of characters actually caught up in the historical changes and potential paradoxes, like who are incapable of seeing the big picture. If we as ENT viewers didn't know at least as much as Daniels knew — and that was impossible, as Berman and Braga obviously never thought it out that much — there was no way it was ever going to hang together. Even the reset button at the start of S4 didn't really make sense.)
Time-travel fiction requires close attention to the underlying time-travel logic to keep things coherent, and the ENT writers obviously didn't bother. Pretty much all of Braga's time-travel stories share that flaw, actually, which is a problem, since he loved to use it as a story gimmick. (Now IMHO, for an example of a show thinking through a complicated time-travel plot in detail and delivering a real payoff, you could do worse than to look at Babylon 5's "Babylon Squared"/"War Without End" combo. But that's on a whole other level from ENT.)
(I'm not saying it's completely impossible to do a good story involving conflict over control of history — a few novelists over the years have pulled it off reasonably well. But they've consistently approached it from the point of view of the behind-the-scenes players, having them operate "outside of time" in some fashion that lends coherence to the narrative... not from the POV of characters actually caught up in the historical changes and potential paradoxes, like who are incapable of seeing the big picture. If we as ENT viewers didn't know at least as much as Daniels knew — and that was impossible, as Berman and Braga obviously never thought it out that much — there was no way it was ever going to hang together. Even the reset button at the start of S4 didn't really make sense.)
Time-travel fiction requires close attention to the underlying time-travel logic to keep things coherent, and the ENT writers obviously didn't bother. Pretty much all of Braga's time-travel stories share that flaw, actually, which is a problem, since he loved to use it as a story gimmick. (Now IMHO, for an example of a show thinking through a complicated time-travel plot in detail and delivering a real payoff, you could do worse than to look at Babylon 5's "Babylon Squared"/"War Without End" combo. But that's on a whole other level from ENT.)
*steps off building*Come on man, you know you want it.
What if they made Lorca future guy!
We need to get you into the Discovery writer's room ASAP. That's a great idea!
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