• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Was Seven a Virgin?

@Kobayashi

I was talking hypothetically if Seven had more realistic psychological reaction.

In season four, Seven had a need to be in control. If a man tried to pressure her into having sex, it would have been taking control away from her, and she would have aggressively rejecting him. When Seven tried to have sex with Kim, she was the one in control.

It wouldn't be taking advantage of him as she was completely honest about her motives and did not use any force.
 
Aren't you reversing roles here? The only thing we do know on this is that Seven is the one who asked abruptly Kim to remove his clothes so they could have sex. One would think that she asked that of a lot of men, after all she wanted to explore her humanity, as she herself put it, just because Kim is a scaredy cat doesn't mean that she stopped there.

Yeah, i totally agree but the question is would a man who agrees to have sex with her be taking advantage? (especially in the first year or so) If you slept with her, would you feel a little guilty, a little like you exploited her (bearing in mind she isn't entirely human yet, not entirely immersed in her individuality) i think i probably would

I think the Borg implants that keep her in check probably mean she is in control to some extent (but how much) and so, for example, if she said to Dalby..."do you wish to copulate"....and he said yeah and encouraged her to go back to his quarters and have some wine etc etc, is he taking advantage of her or not

I would probably come down on no....but honestly, i'm not completely sure

When Seven tried to have sex with Kim, she was the one in control.

But was she? That's what i'm uncertain of. On the one hand she is in control (she is instigating things) but on the other she is clearly a vulnerable woman with a lack of detailed understanding of what she's doing

Imagine a psychologically damaged woman walking the streets asking men for sex....she's instigating things but you wouldn't pretend she isn't still vulnerable (it's more complicated with Seven but you get what i'm saying)

I was talking hypothetically if Seven had more realistic psychological reaction.

I think that's where the Borg implants come in. They keep her together emotionally

But what happens when/if they're removed one day

Is that the day she has a massive psychological breakdown

Is that the day you should feel guilty about having sex with her (but until then it's fine)
 
What is all this bullshit about virginity, who cares if she was a virgin? The woman has gone through hell and back, and inflicted hell and back on thousands of people. Virginity is irrelevant.
 
What is all this bullshit about virginity, who cares if she was a virgin? The woman has gone through hell and back, and inflicted hell and back on thousands of people. Virginity is irrelevant.

Irrelevant to what?

I know Seven uses that a lot but "irrelevant" always refers to something otherwise it doesn't mean anything.
 
I must have missed the Date Rape episode. :wtf:

Retrospect was the date rape episode.

...

Have you ever asked your lover to dress up as a NAZI before you start ####ing?

Borg is worse than NAZI in 2374.

(B'Elanna had sex with a NAZI and carried his baby for 6 months. Sure she can't remember any of that, but the entire experience that was downloaded into her brain is still on file somewhere in Voyager's Library computer.)

I suppose the fear boners would make up for the rest running away in terror?

...

Holodecks are masturbation tools. That's like saying that you can lose your virginity to a cucumber... The option is there, for at least those persons losing their virginity later in life, to bronze the cucumber they lose their virginity to.

Gotta be a person.

A real asshole would further refine that last comment to "gotta be a man" but I would like to think that most of us are beyond that by now.

...

The Borg retask unused biology with technology using a small sharp shovel.

It's likely that in Scorpion that Seven of Nine did not have a vagina.

At some point the Doctor built her one, but was it immediately, and was it capable of making babies if we consider that most of her reproductive plumbing had probably been pulled out to make room for technology.

EMH: Fashion, of course, is hardly my forte. Nevertheless, I've managed to balance functionality and aesthetics in a pleasing enough manner. I also took the liberty of stimulating your hair follicles. A vicarious experience for me, as you might imagine.
Exactly?

I say that in Endgame she was physically a Virgin, but in Unimatrix Zero, she had had a fully actualized emotionally fit adult personality and a boyfriend.

How shaggable was Axum?

Would there have been some reason that they were not boning like rabbits with their avatars?

But this wouldn't have shook off her V card any more effectively than sex on skype.

If the Doctor really did dilly dally around about reconstructing her vagina from practically nothing, it's not like he could have cloned Anika, cut out what he needed,and slapped it back into the original like the the last piece in a remedial jigsaw puzzle... Sure they can do that, but it's far more ethical to just grow individual parts... Where was I? Without an in service vagina, the real question about her sexuality shouldn't have been about virginity, but assginity.

Oh? Then what was she offering Kim in Revulsion?

One school of thought is that she was offering him nothing. She was trying to scare him off, and it worked. Another school of thought is that he wouldn't have noticed or cared if all she did was roll his wang between her thighs for 3 minutes. Although my favourite thought is that if Kim had disrobed, that she would have picked up his uniform and ran like the wind.

Oh!

Janeway and Seven with their fake personalities were definitely lesbians. But then just because they were lesbians it doesn't mean that they were a couple, but they probably were. So that's a strong possibility as to where her virginity went, even if the holodeck character Seven was playing was not a virgin.

Ditto for Workforce. We've all seen Working Girl. Strong women take what they want. Although the reverse could be true? Her workforce personality might have been so abrasive that no one wanted to #### her? That being said, Tom Ran a singles bar. She just had to be unabrasive for as long at it took to drag some back to the toilet block.

Another day driving Seven around, in Flesh and Blood and s/he would have completely seduced Megan Galagher, but is that before or after Megan's brother gets the Doctor Seven too drunk to say "I'm not in the penis business" with anything close to conviction.
 
Last edited:
I must have missed the Date Rape episode. :wtf:

Indeed, and I was recently reading about Retrospect (s04e17) and it was apparently exactly that, originally a date rape episode involving Seven of Nine with all the sexual elements removed during the writing process.

Edit: Ah yes, as GuyGardener said. ;) I really don't recall this one. Gotta check it out again.
TNG dealt most effectively with rape in 5x12, Violations.
 
"Retrospect" definitely still has the subtext to it, albeit told in allegory.
 
I have no reason to believe she didn't have the proper plumbing, and the producers definitely wanted people to believe she had enough human parts left to fuel the fantasies of Trek geeks everywhere. At the same time, she fits the trope of the tough ice-queen who is an impossible conquest. The scene with Kim was played for comic relief. By going against how people expected her to behave, it made it funny, but it also seemed kind of out-of-character. While I don't think she was prudish about the act, I also don't think she would just submit herself to be a no-strings-attached sex-doll for the crew. She was really a classic loner and not one to allow much direct physical contact at all.
 
Jeri Ryan thought Seven was teasing Harry in "Revulsion", but also that it was much too early in the character's development for her to be making jokes after being freed from the Borg only a month earlier.
 
Jeri Ryan thought Seven was teasing Harry in "Revulsion", but also that it was much too early in the character's development for her to be making jokes after being freed from the Borg only a month earlier.

It was too early.

Aside from the fact that she has no meaningful signs of trauma despite going through such an horrific ordeal, there's also the fact that she becomes a regular member of the crew far too quickly and easily as well (without very much development at all)

Scorpion - Borg
The Gift - Borg (cries and whines a bit)
Day of Honour (mostly human now)
Nemesis (not much involvement)
Revulsion (making jokes now)
The Raven (oh wait, hang on, things are complicated)
Scientific Method (no they're not....she's one of us)

They clearly wanted Jeri Ryan on the show and playing her role among the other crew as soon as possible so they skipped the fact that she was a traumatised child with no previous knowledge of being an adult human. I understand the decision but it was so massively convenient

The Seven we see in Endgame is pretty much the Seven we saw in Day of Honour
 
My interpretation of that scene with Harry and Seven is that Seven only had a logical understanding of sex and not an emotional understanding, so to her experiencing it was as simple as finding a guy and going through the mechanics.

Whether she's a virgin is only relevant to the development of her relationship with Chakotay or whatever more interesting man she ended up with after the show. If she regains her memories of her relationship with her Unamatrix boyfriend it'd be less of a new thing to her than if she didn't.
 
No one could take advantage of Seven because the captain was her best friend. You'd end up spaced out the airlock. And there's no reason for anyone to do it when everyone's sexual tension has already been released on the holodeck. The fact that she is meant to be some bombshell supermodel but completely naïve and inexperienced is however, a pretty weird fantasy and one reason she's not a favorite of mine.
 
I thought it was days earlier?

I see that Tom says Revulsion was 3 days after Day of Honour, so it's just a question of how long between Day of Honour and the Gift.

Mos, superficially on the outside maybe it looked like she had everything, but if you factor in that Nemeisis was aired wrong, Revulsion can't have been longer than a week after the Gift.

I imagine that the Doctor must have planned out thousands of surgeries with varying degrees of invasion (Oh? I never noticed that invasive and invasion were connected like that before.) over the next decade to take place, and the flexibility of that plan depending on the success of those surgeries, until she was completely human again.

Of those thousand surgeries, sexual ability/capacity/readiness might have been some were in the middle, but fertility would be downright at the bottom. Considering she couldn't digest solid food for the first year, it's unlikely that the orgasm generator near her liver was attached by cables to the bottom of Seven's vaginal trench, or that Borg technology wouldn't interpret the flushing pleasure sensation as an infection that needed to be dominated.

Under the surface she was not just a mess, but a miracle to be alive.
 
No one could take advantage of Seven because the captain was her best friend. You'd end up spaced out the airlock. And there's no reason for anyone to do it when everyone's sexual tension has already been released on the holodeck. The fact that she is meant to be some bombshell supermodel but completely naïve and inexperienced is however, a pretty weird fantasy and one reason she's not a favourite of mine.

1. Either Tom took advantage of half the female crew or Half the female crew took advantage of Tom, and that's even only if all they were doing was 1950s style hand holding dates.

2. Seven wasn't naive, she was unimpressed. Considering how she can process raw data it's possible, like me, that Seven of Nine, Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix 01 was all porned out.
 
2. Seven wasn't naive, she was unimpressed. Considering how she can process raw data it's possible, like me, that Seven of Nine, Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix 01 was all porned out.

Eh that makes sense but I don't think it jives with how the show goes out of it's way to have episodes like the doctor teaching her the complete basics of dating. She's way behind when it comes to her social development...
 
I know it might seem sexist, but I want her to cook for me.

:)

The skit where she demonstrates her culinary expertise to the crew reminded me of what my parents circle of friends used to get up to in the 70s.

Did you see how protective she was of her booze?

There's an untold story on Voyager about her alcohol intake.
 
Seven and Neelix should have become very close friends. He probably had a few bottles of the real stuff hidden on his ship.
 
Naomi sees those two as her most favourite uncle and aunt.

Why the #### wouldn't she Parent Trap them?

Hey? Did anything become of that cute 12 year old from the last Parent Trap movie?
 
I don't know how many remakes there have been, but I saw the original Parent Trap with little Hayley Mills in a theater in 1961. I don't remember liking it.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top