Was Riker a jerk to Shelby?

[MacLeod]

At to be fair the senior staff of Kirk's ship at the end read somthing like

Captain Kirk
Captain Spock
Captain Scott
Commander Uhuru
Commander Checkov
Commander McCoy

A lot of experiance on one ship. True the events of TSFS might have contributed towards Starfleet wanting to keep them together in one place.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Of course, why Data never got the promotion to Commander until Nemesis we'll never know. How many times did he personally save the Enterprise?

 

[R. Star]

Of course, why Data never got the promotion to Commander until Nemesis we'll never know. How many times did he personally save the Enterprise?

You may not think it's justifiable, but Starfleet was quite slow to advance Data. He's been in the fleet longer than anyone save Picard, and has advanced in rank quite slowly.

Given the guest star Starfleet officers attitudes towards him, there's a percievable bias against the android officer.

 

[R. Star]

Would be kinda funny if she be came his #1 on the Titan,

Actually she made Captain before Riker.

Odd I'm sure I remember a Captain Riker commanding Officer USS Enterprise. True he did take a step down in grade once Picard returned.

Field promotion, which is a temporary and not formal one. He gave it up, so that really doesn't count. Wesley got one to ensign before he was a cadet for example.

Heck, Riker probably didn't get offered another command until over ten years later in Nemesis because he had a history of turning them down so often.

 

[doubleohfive]

I'm pretty sure nobody thought it was just a field promotion at the time. For all they knew, they'd either end up dead very soon or lose Picard completely.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

Riker may only have been offered command of the Titan due to heavy personnel loses during the Dominion War. Even though he had turned it down several times Starfleet may have made the offer again since they needed experienced officers as captains to replace all the dead ones.

 

[doubleohfive]

Of course, why Data never got the promotion to Commander until Nemesis we'll never know. How many times did he personally save the Enterprise?

Data wasn't a commander in Nemesis. He was still a Lieutenant Commander.

 

[C.E. Evans]

^^^
Position trumps rank. As second officer, Data was still third in the chain of command even if Crusher and Troi were full commanders.

 

[MacLeod]

^True in Deep Space Nine we seemed to have a NCO, O'Brien giving orders to officer. Due to his position as Chief of Operations.

 

[doubleohfive]

^^^
Position trumps rank. As second officer, Data was still third in the chain of command even if Crusher and Troi were full commanders.

Sure it does. I'm not disputing his position. I'm pointing out that despite that, Data was still a lieutenant commander by rank in Nemesis.

Yes, Data was referred to as "Commander" on occasion as opposed to the more clear "Lieutenant Commander", but because of that nebulous address, coupled with the very visible rank pips he wore in that film, he is clearly still a Lieutenant Commander.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

As her superior, Riker had every right to slap her back into line.

This is true. If Riker was a jerk to Shelby, it's because he had to be.

As for Ro: Riker treated Ro the way he did not just because she had a bad record, or because she had a chip on her shoulder the size of the saucer section, but because that record got eight people killed.

 

[C.E. Evans]

^^^
Position trumps rank. As second officer, Data was still third in the chain of command even if Crusher and Troi were full commanders.

Sure it does. I'm not disputing his position. I'm pointing out that despite that, Data was still a lieutenant commander by rank in Nemesis.

Yes, Data was referred to as "Commander" on occasion as opposed to the more clear "Lieutenant Commander", but because of that nebulous address, coupled with the very visible rank pips he wore in that film, he is clearly still a Lieutenant Commander.

I was actually agreeing with you.

 

[doubleohfive]

Ah. My bad.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Well, you WOULD think that, wouldn't you?

Would be kinda funny if she be came his #1 on the Titan,

Actually she made Captain before Riker.

I'm pretty sure she also made admiral before Riker became a captain.

 

[Gil T.Azell]

Well, you WOULD think that, wouldn't you?

Would be kinda funny if she be came his #1 on the Titan,

Actually she made Captain before Riker.

Guess I don't read enough books then,

 

[Tiberius]

Was just watching BOBW yesterday and I still can't escape the conclusion - Riker was a douche to Shelby.

I genuinely think he was jealous of Shelby who seemed to be one step ahead of him all the time. Particularly the scene in engineering where they are trying to find ways to adapt their weapons to fight the Borg, Shelby is still full of ideas but Riker sends everyone to bed?

I will say that Shelby did take the initiative a bit too easily at times and she was wrong to go to Picard over Riker's head about her idea for the saucer separation rather than go through Riker first. I can understand his annoyance there.

However, I think Riker was almost intimidated by Shelby and was hyper defensive from the start, which got in the way of his professionalism.

Put it this way if Riker was the guest star and Shelby was the regular it would be pretty clear who was in the wrong in this situation but because we know Riker more we are inclined to take his side more even though if you look at it objectively he was in the wrong IMO.

Thoughts?

I think Shelby was a jerk too. She came in and started organising away teams and generally acting like she had a position that she didn't have. She really overstepped her authority, trod on Riker's toes, which I think is the reason that Riker didn't like her.

BTW, I'd be interested in your opinions about my take on their relationship in my novelization of the episode. See my signature!

 

[Tiberius]

SHE was the jerk IMHO...going "oh...and I´ll take your job".

At the time she said that she thought he was leaving to become a captain, so that's hardly the jerk line that you think it was.

But he hadn't left yet. Besides, her, "I'd appreciate any assistance you can offer" line is really bitchy.

And that scene where he tells Shelby in front of the whole senior staff that he's only "reluctantly" making her his XO? What a dick .

I always viewed that as a joke. By that time, he's already shown that he and Shelby can work well together, and his reluctantly line is a friendly jibe.

 

[sonak]

SHE was the jerk IMHO...going "oh...and I´ll take your job".

At the time she said that she thought he was leaving to become a captain, so that's hardly the jerk line that you think it was.

But he hadn't left yet. Besides, her, "I'd appreciate any assistance you can offer" line is really bitchy.

And that scene where he tells Shelby in front of the whole senior staff that he's only "reluctantly" making her his XO? What a dick .

I always viewed that as a joke. By that time, he's already shown that he and Shelby can work well together, and his reluctantly line is a friendly jibe.

But still, she thought he was on the way out. It was a simple misunderstanding, as she says "I'm sorry, I heard you were leaving."

And if that later line by Riker is a joke, it's a very deadpan one. He says it in a serious tone without so much as cracking a smile.


Shelby was out of line some times too, like going down with Data alone out of schedule, but it was hardly a one-way thing.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Of course, why Data never got the promotion to Commander until Nemesis we'll never know. How many times did he personally save the Enterprise?

Data wasn't a commander in Nemesis. He was still a Lieutenant Commander.

I was more going off that he was to replace Riker as Picard's "Number One" before the events of the movie. I presume that would involve some sort of promotion.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

In my dream reboot Riker meets with an unfortunate accident and Shelby takes his place for the rest of the series. This should ideally occur in Encounter at Farpoint.