Was pretty excited for this show.. but ultimately underwhelmed...

[Dar70]

I like the show. The only episode I did not like ...but did like PARTS of...was the first full episode with Seven. Crazy Tonal shifts that did not work. it was like two different episodes crammed together.

Part of the problem as I see it is that our understanding of consciousness has expanded quite a bit since the 60's. We originally took it for granted when we were watching as kids that the person stepping off that transporter pad was the same person with the same continuity of consciousness they had when standing on the planet. As great thinkers have tried to figure out how that might be accomplished... it has become clear that it is probably the most unlikely tech in Star Trek.

Copying a consciousness MIGHT be possible. But probably not transferring a consciousness. The greatest hope for that might lie in slowly supplementing a brain with man made tech so that eventually the entire brain is artificial. That way the continuity isn't broken.

So, Star Trek is stuck with a legacy of a 'model of consciousness' between the transporter and other things that today's writers have to honor, but also add to in a new and believable way. It's a tough spot to be in. I choose to just accept it.

People often bring up the transporter thing. Trek has never been consistant with it. The Riker copy episode people will point it out and say... SEE you can make a copy. But as Doctor Crusher said they were ALMOST identical. So that tells me one was indeed a copy and one is the original. Than what about Barclay being conscious during the transporter process??? The man grabbed a damn person caught in the stream mid transport....so that right there shows me they are indeed the same people that enter and leave the transporter and are conscious during...

But anyhow Picard is now a copy. Despite how people are trying to say its not true. I wish they would have waited to kill Picard off in season 3...not episode 1p. lol. It was a stupid plot point especially the excuse for leaving him with his human physical traits and aging....

 

[Turtletrekker]

No, Data was a copy. Picard is still Picard.

 

[fireproof78]

Yup, never seen a human copy of a robot before...

Now there's a Trek episode I didn't expect a follow up on.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

It's Jean-Luc Picard, how can I say there is absolutely no interest? But since it seems I'm no longer welcome here, this will most likely be my last post in this 'Picard' section of the forum for a while.

I think interpreting that you're some how not welcome from what Lord Garth said, is a radical interpretation of the text.

Of course people can be critical about Picard. But if you're going to come in here to be critical without even having watched the show, well then people are going to take issue and understandably call you out on it.

 

[Jinn]

Personally, I watched the show, didn't really like it a lot, but can't be bothered to talk about it a lot.

I do like looking at y'all fighting over it though.

 

[TRON JA307020]

People often bring up the transporter thing. Trek has never been consistant with it. The Riker copy episode people will point it out and say... SEE you can make a copy. But as Doctor Crusher said they were ALMOST identical. So that tells me one was indeed a copy and one is the original. Than what about Barclay being conscious during the transporter process??? The man grabbed a damn person caught in the stream mid transport....so that right there shows me they are indeed the same people that enter and leave the transporter and are conscious during...

But anyhow Picard is now a copy. Despite how people are trying to say its not true. I wish they would have waited to kill Picard off in season 3...not episode 1p. lol. It was a stupid plot point especially the excuse for leaving him with his human physical traits and aging....

Yeah he’s a copy, data uses the term “mapping” so yeah they recreate his brain patterns to. Android Picard is a copy of Picard brain and all. The real Picard actually died and is gone.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah he’s a copy, data uses the term “mapping” so yeah they recreate his brain patterns to. Android Picard is a copy of Picard brain and all. The real Picard actually died and is gone.

Good riddance to that real Picard.

 

[USS Firefly]

Good riddance to that real Picard.

That was a brutal scene

 

[fireproof78]

That was a brutal scene

It was. Very unsettling.

 

[Dukhat]

Personally, I watched the show, didn't really like it a lot, but can't be bothered to talk about it a lot.

I do like looking at y'all fighting over it though.

Internet fighting is the best. They should make it an Olympic sport.

 

[XCV330]

Yup, never seen a human copy of a robot before...

Now there's a Trek episode I didn't expect a follow up on.

Bill Theiss's brief attempt to get a small gray square introduced as the next uniform.

 

[Tenacity]

Bill Theiss's brief attempt to get a small gray square introduced as the next uniform.

Kirk apparently requires a LARGE grey square.

 

[Makarov]

Yeah he’s a copy, data uses the term “mapping” so yeah they recreate his brain patterns to. Android Picard is a copy of Picard brain and all. The real Picard actually died and is gone.

Even if you wanna interpret him as a copy, is that a bad thing? Do you consider Thomas Riker not the "real Riker"?

 

[Tenacity]

Even if you wanna interpret him as a copy, is that a bad thing?

In a hypothedical, where the original Picard was still alive, but the synthetic (with all Picard's memories in it) was the same in every way to the one last seen in the season closer.

Would there be the slightest doubt on your part that the synthetic standing right next to original Picard was in fact a "copy."

Do you consider Thomas Riker not the "real Riker"?

Owing to their several years of different life experiences, without a doubt Thomas Riker is not William Riker.

That said, at the time of the transporter incident they were for a short time the same person, and physically identical twins.

 

[Makarov]

In a hypothedical, where the original Picard was still alive, but the synthetic (with all Picard's memories in it) was the same in every way to the one last seen in the season closer.

In that case one can be considered a copy, but both are Picard.

 

[Tenacity]

In that case one can be considered a copy, but both are Picard.

I guess that would depend on how you would define "Picard."

In my mind, when Picard died, he died, he as a unique entity is gone. Even though a reproduction exists.

 

[plynch]

I guess killing a loved character only once wasn't enough.

Gotta go to the same well again and again and again. Khaaaaaaaaan!

 

[Sci]

If the Spock who arose from the Genesis Planet and then had his katra re-merged with his brain in Star Trek III is the same person as the Spock who served aboard the starship Enterprise with Captains Pike and Kirk in Star Trek: The Original Series, then the Jean-Luc Picard who woke up on Coppelius in "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part II" is the same person as the Jean-Luc Picard who commanded the starship Enterprise-D on Star Trek: The Next Generation.

 

[ChallengerHK]

I'll throw in my two cents.

"Is Picard dead?" is a philosophical question. It depends on the existence and nature of a soul. Bottom line is, we don't know the answer, because we don't know whether or not there is a soul, and what it is if it does exist. Personally I think there is such a thing, that each is unique, and I don't have a strong feeling about whether or not it's "copy-able," but YMMV.

My issue with Picard's death is that it was pointless. Someone upstream mentioned thhat it might have been done to provide a way for dead-Picard to speak with dead-Data. Maybe. My belief, with nothing to back this up, is that Stewart wanted a death scene. Either way, he dies, there's lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth...and two scenes later, not only is he back, but they go out of their way to explain that nothing has changed aside from the fact that his body is now constructed instead of grown. He's the same as he was before, his life span will be the same, his memories are the same. So why kill him in the first place?

From a high level, this applies to the entire conclusion of the season. Agnes went crazy and killed a guy, but she repented, so it's OK. Soji very quickly and easily decides to assist in the destruction of all living things in the galaxy...then decides not to just as quickly, so it's OK. Actions doo not have ramifications. All in all, it's a very episodic way of developing characters, which is surprising for a show that was supposed to have been built on a pre-planned 10-episode season.

 

[AlanC9]

If the Spock who arose from the Genesis Planet and then had his katra re-merged with his brain in Star Trek III is the same person as the Spock who served aboard the starship Enterprise with Captains Pike and Kirk in Star Trek: The Original Series, then the Jean-Luc Picard who woke up on Coppelius in "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part II" is the same person as the Jean-Luc Picard who commanded the starship Enterprise-D on Star Trek: The Next Generation.

Or maybe they're both different. Hell, maybe everyone who's ever used a transporter is different.