• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Was Obi Wan a bad mentor/teacher?

He partitioned his brain.

His love and teenage rebellion were in a box that Ben couldn't "sense" into.

That's why he was such a little prick when he opened his feelings box.
 
Sometimes I get the feeling that a good number of fans tend to have these extreme expectations of Anakin. They either castigate the character for not being a borderline juvenile delinquent before he became Vader . . . or they castigate him for failing to be the ideal Jedi during the same period. In fact, these fans seemed to express more objections against him while he was becoming Vader than when he was the Sith Lord during the Original Trilogy period. Weird.
Because I don't get the sense that Anakin was a "good guy" who eventually made decisions that led to his fall. I don't want him to be the ideal Jedi. I want him to be powerful and capable of doing incredibly good things and amazingly evil things. I just don't see Anakin as capable of doing good things by the time of AOTC. He comes across as arrogant, egotistical, selfish, and a show-off.

So, he doesn't feel like a good guy who fell. He feels like he was already on a downward slide and Palpatine just finished the job. That's not very interesting or compelling for me.

YMMV. I don't want either extreme that "fans" "castigate" Anakin for.
 
Sheev is one 1/16th Gungan on his mother's side.
JP5ajJ4.gif
 
Because I don't get the sense that Anakin was a "good guy" who
Sheev is one 1/16th Gungan on his mother's side.

Well that explained a lot ;)
eventually made decisions that led to his fall. I don't want him to be the ideal Jedi. I want him to be powerful and capable of doing incredibly good things and amazingly evil things. I just don't see Anakin as capable of doing good things by the time of AOTC. He comes across as arrogant, egotistical, selfish, and a show-off.

So, he doesn't feel like a good guy who fell. He feels like he was already on a downward slide and Palpatine just finished the job. That's not very interesting or compelling for me.

YMMV. I don't want either extreme that "fans" "castigate" Anakin for.

He saved Obi Wan's life a lot in AOTC
 
It's probably worth remembering the context of these comments: -
The "my very young padawan" jibe was right after Anakin claims to be a better swordmaster than Yoda.
"You will learn your place" comes right after Anakin directly challenged Obi-Wan's authority and attempted to re-interpret the council's instructions.
And of course "good job" is after he wilfully disobeyed a direct order, got himself captured in a botched rescue attempt and endangered the Senator he was supposed to be protecting to boot.

In all these cases, he's trying to temper Anakin's ego a reckless arrogance. All that said, I think you'll find that the biggest critic of Obi-Wan's teaching ability is Obi-Wan himself and he says as much in RotJ.

Obi-Wan's problem is that he's a young man barely out of training himself training an even younger man having problems being a Jedi (a similar mistake made with having Anakin train Ashoka Tano, IMHO-Anakin's an unorthodox Jedi training a younger orthodox Jedi who doesn't have the same problems being
a Jedi like him {although she too is somewhat reckless and prone to go off script.])
 
She was raised in the temple, and taught Jedi #### her entire life?

Anikan wasn't there to train her, more so to make sure that Book learning turned into street smarts. Similar to an intern showing up in a hospital after seven years of medical school, and laughed at for being a noob.
 
Anakin and Ahsoka have about the same number of years in the temple by the time Yoda make her the Padawan learner of Anakin Skywalker. Ahsoka might have a year or so more than Anakin, as she was brought in at the age of three around a year before Qui-Gon discovered Anakin on Tatooine.

Anakin went straight to being a Padawan learner to Obi-wan Kenobi following the Battle of Naboo. Obi-wan trained Anakin as best he could given that Obi-wan Kenobi was not the more powerful, nor gifted of Jedi. He became one of the most patient of Jedi and through practice and experience, because one of the best the Jedi had during the Clone Wars. Part of that was just to keep up with his student. Anakin was not able to be trained normally as he wasn't indoctrinated into the Jedi Order during the first decade of his life, so he had to get the short version and the Jedi lived (for a time) with the results, since he was pretty much the most gifted Force user in the Order, even as a Padawan. As a Jedi Knight, he was, reportedly, the best warrior they had. Combined with Obi-wan's talents or Ahsoka to keep him centered, Anakin Skywalker was basically the unstoppable Jedi hero of the Republic. At least as far as the public was concerned.

Ahsoka was brought up the Jedi way (more or less) until several months into the Clone Wars were she's rushed out to provide more field commanders to the Grand Army of the Republic, and to hopefully provide a growing up lesson about attachments and how to let go to Skywalker. She's not really too young to be a Padawan, just on the younger side...though it is possible she was young for her species. She had more Jedi knowledge than her master because she learned the basics the traditional way, and even built her lightsaber before becoming a Padawan. Skywalker's influence would make her more capable in combat, increase her survival skills, boost her abilities with the Force, and she'd pick up most of his good traits. The parts of him that remained of that little boy from Tatooine. She would also pickup some of his bad habits, but those tended to work out well for both them and the Republic. Obi-wan would provide a little bit of experience training for her as well as she served with Master Kenobi while under Skywalker's teachings. This might have tempered her a little better than just having Anakin teaching her. But some of that also stems from her original Temple life and training.
 
Did Vader murder Ashoka?

And if he murdered her, shouldn't Sheev taught him how to bring her back, if it took a few months to get around to whack her?
 
We actually don't know for certain (at this point in time) what happened to Ahsoka. It is assumed we will find out in Season Four of Star Wars: Rebels what her fate at the end of Season Two actually was.
 
Obi-Wan's problem is that he's a young man barely out of training himself training an even younger man having problems being a Jedi (a similar mistake made with having Anakin train Ashoka Tano, IMHO-Anakin's an unorthodox Jedi training a younger orthodox Jedi who doesn't have the same problems being
a Jedi like him {although she too is somewhat reckless and prone to go off script.])

I don't think assigning newly Knighted Jedi with Padawan's of their own is a "mistake" but rather par for the course.
I know it's not canon, but the 'Path of the Jedi' book proposes a notion that I find quite appealing. That passing on their knowledge to another is the final trial of a Jedi and *that* is what qualifies a Jedi to the rank of Master. Think of a Knight as roughly analogous to a journeyman. They've completed their apprenticeship, but still must create a masterwork to present to the guild to be considered a master in their own right.

I think it really speaks to the notion that the Jedi were originally teachers, first and foremost. Monks, who gathered and shared knowledge and that the warrior thing came later and only gradually over time.
This also seems to be expressed in the way the Jedi interacted with the clones. They began to mentor them on more than just military matters. It wasn't like it was a conscious decision either, it's just how they think.

Anyway, the point of assigning Ahsoka to Anakin was twofold: first, Ahsoka was brash and impatient. Yoda hoped that when faced with this, Anakin would see that in himself and in teaching her, would also learn about himself. The second part is that eventually, the teacher must let a student go and come into their own. Yoda wanted him to learn about letting go of his attachments.

It didn't work because it all went to hell before any of that could really come to fruition. One would expect Ahsoka to have been with him for several more years and that the manner of her leaving would be passing the trials and becoming a Knight, not walking away from the Order in disgust. So yeah, it massively backfired.
Combined with Obi-wan's talents or Ahsoka to keep him centered, Anakin Skywalker was basically the unstoppable Jedi hero of the Republic. At least as far as the public was concerned.
I know this was a thing in the EU, but I'm not convinced it was ever really the case. I get the impression that Palpatine's propaganda at the time would have been careful *not* to publicise the exploits of any particular Jedi as individuals.
This would both please the council who certainly aren't interesting in their Knights and Masters becoming galactic celebrities and serve Sidious's ends in (for lack of a better term) dehumanising the Jedi and casting them as a monolithic cult of war crazed zealots in the public imagination.

I wouldn't be surprised if the involvement of the Jedi went increasingly omitted from news reports as the war went on, crediting only "Republic forces" with victories. The failures on the other hand, would be a different matter. Indeed, I imagine that after a while, the only time the word "Jedi" would appear in the news is when Palpatine would publicly "defend" them against accusations of excessive force, inept leadership or in needlessly perpetuating the conflict.
I'm sure they'd also not miss an opportunity to refer to the leader of the Seperatists as "former Jedi, Count Dooku", just to reinforce the negative connotation in people's minds and fuel the suspicion the Jedi are behind the whole thing.
 
It's taken me 18 years to notice who Anikan really is.

Jedi Billy Madison

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Anikan had to do all the children's classes, side by side with children, and ####ing Lucas, did not think that that would be a worthwhile movie that I would be interested in.
 
I seem to recall Anakin being basically the exception to Palpatine's anti-Jedi wash. Partly to set him up as the one hero who would stand besides Palpatine and the new Empire. But the crippling into Vader wrecked that preparation.
 
I seem to recall Anakin being basically the exception to Palpatine's anti-Jedi wash. Partly to set him up as the one hero who would stand besides Palpatine and the new Empire. But the crippling into Vader wrecked that preparation.

Not in any canon materials I'm aware of. As for the EU on the other hand, I think the RotS novelisation goes on at some length in the very first chapter about how galaxy-wide famous both Kenobi and Skywalker have become over the course of the Clone Wars. Of course that doesn't mean some other book didn't say the exact opposite, such was the nature of the EU. ;)

Personally, I rather think the plan makes more sense if Palpatine had always intended for Anakin as Darth Vader to be his shadowy agent, mask or no mask. Remember that Palpatine's status as a Sith is still a closely guarded secret, even by the time of Endor. Appropriately Vader's status or very existance would be ambiguous at best. He's only really became known to the galaxy at large after the fact, thanks mostly to the new Republic's telling of the events of the rebellion. 99% of which would have been news to the vast majority who'd only have had Imperial propaganda and rumour to go off of.
 
It's taken me 18 years to notice who Anikan really is.

Jedi Billy Madison

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Anikan had to do all the children's classes, side by side with children, and ####ing Lucas, did not think that that would be a worthwhile movie that I would be interested in.


I don't think that would work in a motion picture, especially since it had no real impact on any of the movies' main narratives.
 
Last edited:
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top