• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Was Obi Wan a bad mentor/teacher?

The officers and troops on the Death Stars were happy to die for their emperor. The slaves on them were happy to die for their freedom. Everyone's happy. It's a big happy 'splosion.
 
Even if someone did have enough cheek to bring such a case, somehow I think the "victims" standing on and operating a planet murdering machine rather erodes one's moral high-ground, no? Even then, you know they're going to stack the jury with Alderaanian expats and people who lived on the *other* side of Jedha. You know, the ones who weren't vaporised?

Besides, the New Republic got to make a new government and that means new laws and I'd be willing to bet one of those new laws is something to the effect of: "Blowing up a Death Star with everyone on it is totally cool. Don't sweat it. Seriously man, they were asking for it anyway. In fact, if you blow one of these suckers up, you get a medal (unless you're a Wookiee.) Doesn't even matter how many daycare centres they had on board."
 
Last edited:
I think we all agree Qui-Gonn would have been a better teacher

No, he would not; Jinn's lacking a respect for the kind of training that made wise individuals like Yoda would lead to his not being able to hit the brakes on an emotional, inherently arrogant Anakin. As presented in the films, Anakin was going to be an egomaniacal disaster no matter what anyone said to him, and Jinn's loose, "I will do what I must" worldview was exactly the kind of approach that encourages breaking rules whenever it suits you. If Anakin was that way with Kenobi, Mace and others, it would be turned up under Jinn.
 
Well I think that Jinn would be a father figure that Anakin needed and respected more than Kenobi.
So I think that Jinn would be a great teacher for Anakin because they are both different Jedi
 
No, he would not; Jinn's lacking a respect for the kind of training that made wise individuals like Yoda would lead to his not being able to hit the brakes on an emotional, inherently arrogant Anakin. As presented in the films, Anakin was going to be an egomaniacal disaster no matter what anyone said to him, and Jinn's loose, "I will do what I must" worldview was exactly the kind of approach that encourages breaking rules whenever it suits you. If Anakin was that way with Kenobi, Mace and others, it would be turned up under Jinn.


I do get tired of people claiming that Anakin was going to turn evil, no matter what. And I get the feeling that they're basing this belief on Anakin's future, as what was shown in the Original Trilogy. No one wants to consider how Anakin would have turned out if he had been trained by a Jedi other than Obi-Wan. It seems as if it's too much of an effort for them to make. Or they have Anakin locked in this character straight jacket, with this pre-destined crap that he would have always turned evil. It's so . . . absolutist to me.

Do I believe Anakin could have avoided an evil fate if Qui-Gon had been his mentor? I don't know. I'm not going to claim yes or no. I believe only George Lucas can answer that question. However, I find it odd that the duel featured in "The Phantom Menace" was titled "Duel of Fates".


By the way . . anyone can become an egomaniacal disaster or monster. All it takes is for the right emotional button to be pushed at the right time.
 
A normal person given Jedi powers will turn into a murderous Sith bomb.

Jedi are not normal people.

They have been lobotomised and brainwashed by their masters and mistresses, until they are emotionless enough to handle the force without turning to the Darkside.
 
Last edited:
I think the only way Anakin could have not fallen would have involved a combination of a) Shmi's fate panning out differently, and b) Palpatine's influence being neutralized (how far in advance that would have needed to occur is left as an exercise for the reader).

Padme not being a total idiot about things might have also helped. Maybe when you find out that the Jedi love of your life is going around killing children it's time to talk to his superiors.
 
I do get tired of people claiming that Anakin was going to turn evil, no matter what. And I get the feeling that they're basing this belief on Anakin's future, as what was shown in the Original Trilogy.

It has nothing to do with his OT actions or behavior. Its about his PT development. By E2, he's already arrogant and feeling he's better than his masters, with nothing to justify the belief other than "I think this about myself". Desperate to be crowned, actually comparing any of his skills to Yoda's, and constantly trying to rewrite the Jedi code to suit his corrupted worldview, PT Anakin could only move toward greed, arrogance and eventually evil.

In the wake of his mass murder of Sandpeople (yes, even the children who were innocent of the situation with his mother), instead of feeling even an ounce of guilt, he screams that they were animals, then follows that with more self-aggrandizing fantasies about what kind of power he will gain over all. This is not some reaction exclusive to his mother--it is clear he had always believed he should have more power, that he was someone above the rest (not meaning the Chosen One idea) and rarely--if ever--listened to anyone. This was PT Anakin--the same fool who thought (based on no investigations / evidence of his own) that Palpatine suddenly talking about things he should not know--was correct...more than the Jedi. Why? Because Anakin was always right, and everyone else is either "holding him back," hiding things from him (again, based on what investigation / evidence?), and any thought ending with Anakin gets what he desires, and anyone standing in his way suffers. It goes on and on.

The patterns of evil were rather obviously laid out in the PT without anyone thinking about ./ referring to OT Vader.

By the way . . anyone can become an egomaniacal disaster or monster. All it takes is for the right emotional button to be pushed at the right time.

He pushed his own buttons, because like Jinn, he would always "do what he must" no matter the consequences.
 
It has nothing to do with his OT actions or behavior. Its about his PT development. By E2, he's already arrogant and feeling he's better than his masters, with nothing to justify the belief other than "I think this about myself". Desperate to be crowned, actually comparing any of his skills to Yoda's, and constantly trying to rewrite the Jedi code to suit his corrupted worldview, PT Anakin could only move toward greed, arrogance and eventually evil.

In the wake of his mass murder of Sandpeople (yes, even the children who were innocent of the situation with his mother), instead of feeling even an ounce of guilt, he screams that they were animals, then follows that with more self-aggrandizing fantasies about what kind of power he will gain over all. This is not some reaction exclusive to his mother--it is clear he had always believed he should have more power, that he was someone above the rest (not meaning the Chosen One idea) and rarely--if ever--listened to anyone. This was PT Anakin--the same fool who thought (based on no investigations / evidence of his own) that Palpatine suddenly talking about things he should not know--was correct...more than the Jedi. Why? Because Anakin was always right, and everyone else is either "holding him back," hiding things from him (again, based on what investigation / evidence?), and any thought ending with Anakin gets what he desires, and anyone standing in his way suffers. It goes on and on.

The patterns of evil were rather obviously laid out in the PT without anyone thinking about ./ referring to OT Vader.



He pushed his own buttons, because like Jinn, he would always "do what he must" no matter the consequences.
And Anakin's supposed to be the hero!?
 
I do get tired of people claiming that Anakin was going to turn evil, no matter what. And I get the feeling that they're basing this belief on Anakin's future, as what was shown in the Original Trilogy. No one wants to consider how Anakin would have turned out if he had been trained by a Jedi other than Obi-Wan. It seems as if it's too much of an effort for them to make.

Well we don't get to learn much about how the Jedi were other than Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon and a little bit Yoda so it makes sense to me to interpret that Yoda and Obi-Wan were pretty standard Jedi. We also don't get to see or learn much about how Anakin was trained, 10 years of development are skipped over, so Lucas seemed to be implying that he was destined to go wrong from his age, background and personality.

This was PT Anakin--the same fool who thought (based on no investigations / evidence of his own) that Palpatine suddenly talking about things he should not know--was correct...more than the Jedi. Why? Because Anakin was always right, and everyone else is either "holding him back," hiding things from him (again, based on what investigation / evidence?), and any thought ending with Anakin gets what he desires, and anyone standing in his way suffers.

I think that's a bit too negative an interpretation from what we saw, he does tend to be frustrated at Jedi restrictions and authorities but I don't think that any time he wants something he has no restraint and is willing to make someone suffer to get it.
 
Last edited:
Sometimes I get the feeling that a good number of fans tend to have these extreme expectations of Anakin. They either castigate the character for not being a borderline juvenile delinquent before he became Vader . . . or they castigate him for failing to be the ideal Jedi during the same period. In fact, these fans seemed to express more objections against him while he was becoming Vader than when he was the Sith Lord during the Original Trilogy period. Weird.
 
Part of the problem is the movies give us such a narrow window into Anakin's life. We see in AotC he's brash and reckless but if one is paying attention, his petty belligerence only seems to manifest around Padme. I've made this argument elsewhere but I think it still holds. Just look at Kenobi's reaction when Anakin starts openly talking back to him in front of a Senator. This is not typical behaviour for him.
What we see seems to amount to no more than a few days and between his being reunited with Padme after a decade and the loss of his mother it must be one of the more emotionally tumultuous weeks of his life to date.

Fast forward to RotS and his relationship with Kenobi seems better than ever, but again, Padme is his Achilles heel. Plus of course the whole time, Palpatine is pouring poison in his ear; encouraging his every worst instinct.

Because TCW had the luxury of showing his progression over time it comes off a lot more convincingly whereas the movies can only show us the set-up and the payoff with precious little of the intervening process.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top