Was Kirk treated badly by Starfleet?

[Shat Happens]

Gary Mitchel said he was "a walking stack of books". Meaning he dedicated himself to Starfleet and the Federation from day one.

On Starfleet orders, Kirk risked his life, his crew and his ship to steal a cloaking device from the Romulans. What did they do then? signed a treaty promising not to use the thing ever.

On Starfleet orders, he gave control of his ship to the "ultimate computer" experiment, a decision which led to disaster. The commodore's solution? to shoot the Enterprise down.

And the court-martial, and all the other life-risking episodes.

When Kirk came back from the 5-year mission, he was manipulated into a desk job that sure shot him into depression.

When he asked just one little thing from another Admiral, that was to retrieve his friend's body -- another officer who had gave his life in the line of duty -- the answer was simply, promptly, uncaring, ungrateful, "no". Couldn't he just say "Sure Jim, I'm commander Starfleet and we have a lot of ships. Tellya what, I'll have Styles give you a ride in the Excelsior". No.

Fuck Starfleet. Space assholes.

Kirk took long enough to snap and steal a giant starship from them -- all knew they would fry his ass for that, not remorsing over the fact they pushed him too far and that his KID would be ALIVE if they had helped in the first place. And yet he came back to save *their* asses from a giant probe nobody else had any idea how to counter.

They couldn't get him after that, so they pretended to swallow that one and in mock gratitude gave him command of another starship, -- one put together by monkeys.

Starfleet was really out to kill Kirk. They sent him with that half-built ship to a confront with a terrorist, the Klingons and the Romulans -- at the same time.

They again failed but they didn't give up:

When Kirk was finally arrested, made a hostage, by their mortal enemies that were known to be hellbent on killing him, what the fucking President did say?

"Oh, let's do nothing. " and then cynically, "He's going to save us again. By standing trial." - and being killed, of course since Klingon law only have one sentence.

Kirk STILL didn't learn: came back --> and saved the same asshole from being literally killed. He could have been shot you know.

He was too nice to Picard in the nexus. I'd have throwed those ketarian eggs in his face.

 

[Melakon]

I'd have throwed those ketarian eggs in his face.

Kirk is the kind of guy to say "Shit happens."

 

[BillJ]

When Kirk came back from the 5-year mission, he was manipulated into a desk job that sure shot him into depression.

Is there anything that says he was manipulated into accepting promotion? McCoy tells him to get back his command and Spock tells him that it was a mistake to accept promotion. I know the comics and novels use that line but I'm having a hard time placing it in an episode or movie?

Kirk just seems like a character that would be hard to manipulate in that manner.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

Who wasn't treated badly by Starfleet at some point?

Voyager was treated badly by Starfleet in the novelverse. We don't get to see much in the TV-canon though.

DS9... I mean, where to begin on that. Sisko was screwed over several times by Starfleet...

Picard also... that horrible bitchy admiral with the blonde hair.

Archer wasn't...to the best of my recollection. But I haven't done a proper rewatch of it! I only watched it through one time at this point.

 

[Nerys Myk]

After all the times his ship was hijacked, his XO took over the ship through deceit and the occasional "mutiny", Kirk's lucky that he's still in Starfleet.

 

[Last Redshirt]

Of course not. He's lucky he still had a job at the end of the Search for Spock/The Voyage Home, considering he not only deserted his post, persuading other high ranking officers to go along with him, but stole a starship, and then got that starship destroyed.

I mean, I get that he's one of Starfleet's finest commanders, but there's only so much that they can take. They probably really only kept him around after that incident because he had a prestigious career and, admittedly, he did it for a good cause.

 

[Push The Button]

Employers always abuse their employees, so yes.

 

[The Wormhole]

On Starfleet orders, Kirk risked his life, his crew and his ship to steal a cloaking device from the Romulans. What did they do then? signed a treaty promising not to use the thing ever.

That treaty was signed 18 years after Kirk was believed to be killed aboard the Enterprise B. So the particular cloaking device he stole from the Romulans was likely already obsolete anyway.

On Starfleet orders, he gave control of his ship to the "ultimate computer" experiment, a decision which led to disaster. The commodore's solution? to shoot the Enterprise down.

1) The Commodore was under orders from Starfleet Command to destroy the Enterprise.
2) He didn't do it in the end.

When Kirk came back from the 5-year mission, he was manipulated into a desk job that sure shot him into depression.

The novels say Kirk was manipulated into promotion, but they're not canon. It's conceivable Kirk sought out promotion, being a career minded officer, but eventually learned he preferred being a captain to an admiral.

When he asked just one little thing from another Admiral, that was to retrieve his friend's body -- another officer who had gave his life in the line of duty -- the answer was simply, promptly, uncaring, ungrateful, "no". Couldn't he just say "Sure Jim, I'm commander Starfleet and we have a lot of ships. Tellya what, I'll have Styles give you a ride in the Excelsior". No.

Does sending a high ranking Starfleet officer to a planet restricted to science personnel to help someone who had been declared dead really make sense to you?

 

[trekshark]

Of course not. He's lucky he still had a job at the end of the Search for Spock/The Voyage Home, considering he not only deserted his post, persuading other high ranking officers to go along with him, but stole a starship, and then got that starship destroyed.

I mean, I get that he's one of Starfleet's finest commanders, but there's only so much that they can take. They probably really only kept him around after that incident because he had a prestigious career and, admittedly, he did it for a good cause.

I figure being in command when his bridge crew saved Earth in TMP got him some slack during the after action review of the events in TWOK*. Then after TVH he got some slack because once again his bridge crew under his command literally saved Earth again.

*Letting the Reliant close to point blank range while acting suspicious and not raising shields.
*Possibly not telling starfleet about Khan after the events in Space Seed. The reason I think this might be the case is that the Ceti Alpha system wasn't declared a forbidden system. If they knew Khan was there all ship computers should have been programmed to alert that the system was off limits any time they tried plotting a course to it. So either Kirk never told anyone or he told them and starfleet is incompetent, in which case he'd be in trouble for revealing their incompetence

 

[T'Girl]

Gary Mitchel said he was "a walking stack of books". Meaning he dedicated himself to Starfleet and the Federation from day one.

I never took that to be the meaning of "a walking stack of books."

Instead Lt. Kirk was a studious and prepared instructor.

 

[MacLeod]

Well saving Earth a couple of times will earn you a few brownie points.

 

[Shat Happens]

Gary Mitchel said he was "a walking stack of books". Meaning he dedicated himself to Starfleet and the Federation from day one.

I never took that to be the meaning of "a walking stack of books."

Instead Lt. Kirk was a studious and prepared instructor.

Of course he was (contrary to ST2009), but it implies dedication too. I think.

(also different than Spock, who was knowledgeable and intelligent just "because he's Vulcan")

 

[Robert Comsol]

When he asked just one little thing from another Admiral, that was to retrieve his friend's body -- another officer who had gave his life in the line of duty -- the answer was simply, promptly, uncaring, ungrateful, "no". Couldn't he just say "Sure Jim, I'm commander Starfleet and we have a lot of ships. Tellya what, I'll have Styles give you a ride in the Excelsior". No.

That's a good point. Although I'm still trying to figure out why and where David Marcus and Lt. Saavik (?!?!) jumped ship to board the Grissom upon Enterprise's voyage home, Kirk had been among those most familiar with the Genesis Project, witnessed the effects of the Genesis Torpedo and - if you will - should have been the Starfleet Admiral to overlook the proceedings.

MORROW: Out of the question, my friend! The Council has ordered that no one but the science team goes to Genesis!

Technically speaking there is already one Starfleet officer (Lt. Saavik) so it's weird that Admiral Kirk couldn't join her (alternately Morrow could have ordered the science team to secure Spock's body but this possibility apparently doesn't even cross Morrow's mind).

Bob

 

[T'Girl]

Meaning he dedicated himself to Starfleet and the Federation from day one

Of course he was ... but it implies dedication too. I think.

I think Kirk was dedicated to his friends, his ship, his shipmates and his own personal ideals. Probably dedicated to Starfleet in a professional way.

I can't remember Kirk ever showing any level of "dedication" to the Federation. Not directly. Instructions from the council would come down through the chain of command and Kirk would follow them, but where are you seeing his dedication to that organization?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Having a bureaucratic body that gets in the way of the hero doing what needs to do done is a huge trope. One I'm glad was mostly absent from the 24th century Treks. It's a fine plot device to force the hero to go off and have to solve the problem on his own, but it really drags down the fun value of a universe when everybody in the universe except the protagonists are either assholes or idiots.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

When he asked just one little thing from another Admiral, that was to retrieve his friend's body -- another officer who had gave his life in the line of duty -- the answer was simply, promptly, uncaring, ungrateful, "no". Couldn't he just say "Sure Jim, I'm commander Starfleet and we have a lot of ships. Tellya what, I'll have Styles give you a ride in the Excelsior". No.

That's a good point. Although I'm still trying to figure out why and where David Marcus and Lt. Saavik (?!?!) jumped ship to board the Grissom upon Enterprise's voyage home, Kirk had been among those most familiar with the Genesis Project, witnessed the effects of the Genesis Torpedo and - if you will - should have been the Starfleet Admiral to overlook the proceedings.

MORROW: Out of the question, my friend! The Council has ordered that no one but the science team goes to Genesis!

Technically speaking there is already one Starfleet officer (Lt. Saavik) so it's weird that Admiral Kirk couldn't join her (alternately Morrow could have ordered the science team to secure Spock's body but this possibility apparently doesn't even cross Morrow's mind).

Bob

Saavik is a science officer, isn't she? Add to that the direct observation of Genesis which few people could have had, and she seems like a very natural choice to be a part of the science team studying the Genesis planet.

As for where she and David left Kirk and crew, I always assumed one of the first things they did was drop by a space station somewhere, from which the two of them could easily be sent off to/picked up by the Grissom.

All of which completely ignores the fact that the Council at this point is basically bending over backwards to avoid the appearance of militarizing genesis, so sending a highly decorated war veteran there (especially Kirk, with his history of encounters with the Klingons) could easily have sparked a war. Really, the thing people should really be wondering is not why wasn't Kirk allowed to go back - it's why didn't Starfleet just humor the highly decorated war veteran by asking the Grissom (which was ALREADY at Genesis) to beam up Spock's casket and have it shipped back to Vulcan at the earliest opportunity? But of course, then there would be no movie.

 

[MacLeod]

I might have missed it but when was Kirk invovled in a War, the closest we got was the one the Organian's stopped unless I'm mistaken.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

The history between the series and the films is a little vague (or at least my understanding of it is) - maybe 'cold war hero' would be a more accurate description. Still, comments from various films/series strongly imply that Kirk was a legendary enemy to the Klingons - having him present at genesis would basically be (to them) a confirmation that Genesis was intended as a weapon all along. Of course, they already believed that, but the Council must have still had hope that they could be convinced otherwie.

 

[MacLeod]

Or perhaps the Klingons just viewed starfleet purely as a military force, and Kirk became known to them through incidents such as Organia, Sherman's planet etc... thus he gained a reputation for thwarting their plans.

It is possible that Klingon commanders had very little direct contact with other Starfleet Captain's. And if Starfleet did some PR work on Krik's achievements they might have been picked up by the Klingon's.

 

[Robert Comsol]

And if Starfleet did some PR work on Kirk's achievements they might have been picked up by the Klingon's.

Which reminds me: The original Genesis presentation by Dr. Marcus appeared to be top brass eyes only (or retinas ), yet Kirk made a report where actually anyone listening to that report (including the Klingons) learned about Genesis.

"To fully understand the events on which I report, it is necessary to review the theoretical data on the Genesis device as developed by Doctors Carol and David Marcus. Genesis, simply put, is life from lifelessness. It was the intention to introduce the Genesis Device into a preselected area of a lifeless space body, a moon or other dead form. The device when delivered would instantaneously cause the Genesis effect. Instead of a dead moon, a living, breathing planet now exists, capable of sustaining whatever lifeforms we see fit to deposit on it."

Upon their arrival home there was the Genesis controversy, obviously started by Kirk's report. Maybe Morrow felt that Kirk had become a loose canon, leaking classified information from the Federation Security Bureau (FEDSCBU) and therefore needed to be grounded?

Bob