Was "Enterprise" Federation Revisionist History?

[Devilpogostick]

To answer the topic, I'm gonna say no. It feels like an extra kick to the junk to think that the whole series is just something like TATV.

But I could buy Enterprise being a universe that was affected by Picard and crew during first contact...Which could lead to the Kelvin-Trek films seeing how Enterprise could have a Earth-Romulan war that...Was a lot less secretive to the point nobody in Kelvin-Kirk's time was too surprised what Romulans actually look like as long as nobody starts shooting.

 

[Phoenix219]

Enterprise was Riker's holodeck game, and Next Gen was one of Benny Russel's stories.

Oh and everything after 1994 is Picard's Nexus fantasy. What you didn't think he REALLY got out, did you?

Exactly... its his fantasy, becoming an action hero, up-ending the legendary Kirk as the E's best Captain, getting revenge on the Borg, seeing his friends happy (Troi/Riker, Data w/emotions, Geordi with eyes).... all the rest of the TNG movies are nothing but Picard's fantasy.

 

[Noname Given]

There was nothing at all 'revisionist' in the way "Enterprise" dealt with Federation pre-history as honestly; aside from the Earth-Romulan War; and the events in TNG's 'feature film 'First Contact' <--- Which was dealt with both in the ENT pilot, and the episode "Regeneration"; NOTHING had really been established in canon. Yes, there was a lot of 'history' from fan fic and soft canon sources - but nothing in on screen canon had been violated.

IMO ENT violated/retconned less of the TOS era than TNG did. (And yeah, I'll mention I was watching Star Trek first run since the mid-third season of TOS in 1969. I was 6 and have been watching ever since -- with the exception of ST:VOY. Stopped watching that show after "The 37's" as I couldn't take the way the characters were written any longer. YMMV.)

My ranking of the ST series (franchise wide);
1)TOS
2) ENT
3) TAS
4) DS9
5) TNG
,
,
,
,
,
,
[...ad infinitum...]
.
VOY

YMMV of course

 

[Phoenix219]

Thats pretty close to how I would rank them, as well.

Been watching since I was 9, even if it was just TOS re runs in the 80s, pre TNG.

 

[Vger23]

Yep. All the ships they find way out there are usually connected those pesky anomalies. Our heroes are usually surprised to find them out there. So they probably weren't designed to travel out that far. Hell, the Valiant only had impulse engines!

Kirk didn't mean that the Valiant only had old impulse engines. He simply meant that the older impulse engines were not strong enough to weather the storm. His statement in no way reflects that the Valiant is limited to impulse drive only.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Kirk didn't mean that the Valiant only had old impulse engines. He simply meant that the older impulse engines were not strong enough to weather the storm. His statement in no way reflects that the Valiant is limited to impulse drive only.

My question would be, why not use the Warp engines? If you're in a storm relying on impulse seems unwise.
The writer's intent was probably to show the ship was less advanced. Same as a jet pilot saying "the old prop engines" when talking about aircraft. Or comparing a steam ship to a sailing ship.

 

[Ithekro]

Wasn't there something dangerous about using warp drive in a ion storm? Like it might explode or something?

 

[Dukhat]

But I could buy Enterprise being a universe that was affected by Picard and crew during first contact...Which could lead to the Kelvin-Trek films seeing how Enterprise could have a Earth-Romulan war that...Was a lot less secretive to the point nobody in Kelvin-Kirk's time was too surprised what Romulans actually look like as long as nobody starts shooting.

Here's the thing about that...there are only two possibilities here.

1. What we saw in FC was always how the timeline was (i.e. the Borg and Picard & co. were always supposed to go back in time), or

2. The Borg and Picard & co. coming back in time created an alternate universe where the events going forward were different than the original timeline.

Since you can't use scenario #1 to prove anything, let's focus on scenario #2. So in the original timeline, Cochrane presumably made his warp flight without the hazard of future mechanical space zombies from Sweden damaging his ship or future astronauts on some kind of "Star Trek" helping him to succeed. However, the results were exactly the same: Cochrane made his flight, attracted the attention of the Vulcans, and eventually Earth got better and the Federation was formed. So even if a new timeline did in fact get created, I don't see how it would be any different from the old one, other than the fact that a couple of people from the 21st century had knowledge of a couple of other people from 300 years in the future. I'm not sure how this would really change anything.

However, there's also a third possibility: That in the true,"original" timeline where no one came back in time and Cochrane made his flight alone, once the Vulcans landed on Earth, perhaps Cochrane freaked out (since no one ever told him that his flight would attract some aliens) and blew the head Vulcan away with a shotgun, creating the Mirror Universe. Which would mean that the Mirror Universe is in fact the original timeline, and the Prime Timeline is in fact the changed timeline. Mind blown?

 

[Tuskin38]

Which would mean that the Mirror Universe is in fact the original timeline, and the Prime Timeline is in fact the changed timeline. Mind blown?

Well In a Mirror Darkly kind of debunks this.

Unless the Terran Empire altered all of earth's classical works.

 

[Vger23]

However, there's also a third possibility: That in the true,"original" timeline where no one came back in time and Cochrane made his flight alone, once the Vulcans landed on Earth, perhaps Cochrane freaked out (since no one ever told him that his flight would attract some aliens) and blew the head Vulcan away with a shotgun, creating the Mirror Universe. Which would mean that the Mirror Universe is in fact the original timeline, and the Prime Timeline is in fact the changed timeline. Mind blown?

I have often, in my more pessimistic moments, thought very similarly. I've always wondered if our true evolution is more toward the Mirror Universe than what is portrayed in Star Trek's prime universe.

 

[Dukhat]

Well In a Mirror Darkly kind of debunks this.

Unless the Terran Empire altered all of earth's classical works.

Specifically?

 

[Tuskin38]

Specifically?

Mirror Phlox says Earth's literary classics are different between the universes.

PHLOX: I was merely researching classical literature. I wanted to compare our major works with their counterparts in the other universe. I skimmed a few of the more celebrated narratives. The stories were similar in some respects, but their characters were weak and compassionate. With the exception of Shakespeare, of course. From what I could tell, his plays were equally grim in both universes.

 

[Dukhat]

Mirror Phlox says Earth's literary classics are different between the universes.

PHLOX: I was merely researching classical literature. I wanted to compare our major works with their counterparts in the other universe. I skimmed a few of the more celebrated narratives. The stories were similar in some respects, but their characters were weak and compassionate. With the exception of Shakespeare, of course. From what I could tell, his plays were equally grim in both universes.

Thanks. I didn't remember that specific quote, but obviously it implies that the Mirror Universe is its own separate thing.

 

[Tuskin38]

It is entirely possible that the Empire edited all the classical works as propaganda, but that is just speculation obviously.

The MU novels go with the idea it is an entirely separate universe.

 

[Dukhat]

Also, if the opening montage is to be believed, then the Terran Empire existed as far back as 1969 when Evil Neil Armstrong planted the Terran flag on the Moon.

 

[Emperor Norton]

In a deleted scene that was film but not aired, Mirror Archer makes mention of "gods", indicating an earlier deviation. Given the sashes, I have always thought of the Mirror Universe as being something like a fusion of the Hellenistic world and the Mongols or something. On the whole, whatever it is, it seems the deviation goes far back. There were cultures in early human history that operated exactly like the Terran Empire. In the Mirror universe, humanity never overcame that, kept it as the way everything worked, institutionalized it, and took it to space. It is not just opposite day. The Terran Empire is a humanity as it did once exist, but which never refined itself.

 

[Phoenix219]

Here's the thing about that...there are only two possibilities here.

1. What we saw in FC was always how the timeline was (i.e. the Borg and Picard & co. were always supposed to go back in time), or

2. The Borg and Picard & co. coming back in time created an alternate universe where the events going forward were different than the original timeline.

Since you can't use scenario #1 to prove anything, let's focus on scenario #2. So in the original timeline, Cochrane presumably made his warp flight without the hazard of future mechanical space zombies from Sweden damaging his ship or future astronauts on some kind of "Star Trek" helping him to succeed. However, the results were exactly the same: Cochrane made his flight, attracted the attention of the Vulcans, and eventually Earth got better and the Federation was formed. So even if a new timeline did in fact get created, I don't see how it would be any different from the old one, other than the fact that a couple of people from the 21st century had knowledge of a couple of other people from 300 years in the future. I'm not sure how this would really change anything.

However, there's also a third possibility: That in the true,"original" timeline where no one came back in time and Cochrane made his flight alone, once the Vulcans landed on Earth, perhaps Cochrane freaked out (since no one ever told him that his flight would attract some aliens) and blew the head Vulcan away with a shotgun, creating the Mirror Universe. Which would mean that the Mirror Universe is in fact the original timeline, and the Prime Timeline is in fact the changed timeline. Mind blown?

.... so the Mirror Universe is actually the future of OUR timeline.... since thats definitely how modern day humans would act... lol.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I just remembered that Voyager's "Relativity" refers to the events of First Contact as a "pogo paradox", where interference to prevent an event is what leads to said event occurring.

 

[Devilpogostick]

Hmmm, seeing the opening of In a Mirror, Darkly does suggest that rather than swapping out the optimistic points of human history, the human race in the mirror verse are really that brutal/never move past the cultures of old.

It's just that first contact with Vulcans just kept them from wiping each other out and gave them new targets in the long run.

 

[Tuskin38]

The Terrans were not completely repressive of other species, Evidence being the high ranks of T'Pol and Spock

It seems even if you're an alien but prove yourself you can get a good position.