Obviously, he was a little too extreme, but should the Federation Council have listened to Maxwell? It could have made the war with the Dominion much shorter and less costly. It also would have negated the creation of the Maquis and the resulting conflicts they caused. But would it have been worth it?
Was Captain Maxwell right?
- Thread starter erastus25
- Start date
RobertScorpio
Pariah
One has to wonder. Though if the future had not happened the way it did, the Dominion War, and the council had acted on his advice, then any pre-emptive move on the Starfleets part would have looked very similar to what we have happing in the world today (chiefly, the war in Iraq).
You can argue it both ways. What if, in an alternate universe, the US forces found several nuclear bombs hidden in Sadam's underground bases. Then things would have been different I think for Bush. But they didn't.
What we need to do is hire someone who can actually see the future!!! Would make being a leader an easier thing to do!
Rob
Written in the style of a Marvel Comics What If issue, here's what Uatu the Watcher says would have happened if they had listened to Maxwell.
1 - Starfleet becomes more aggressive in its dealings with the Cardassians.
2 - The Cardassians step up their plans to invade Minos Korva and pull their troops off of Bajor to support it. (See the Star Trek Chronology - according to that, the two things are directly linked)
3 - The Cardassians attack Minos Korva without having their ships mined by the crew of the Enterprise. The Federation invokes the Khitomer Accords and suddenly the Cardassians have to fight a war on two fronts when they could barely afford one. The Romulans sit back and laugh while their enemies fight each other.
4 - Starfleet takes over Terok Nor much sooner and then discovers the wormhole. They start poking their nose around the Gamma Quadrant and provoke the Dominion much sooner.
5 - The desperate Cardassians secretly negotiate membership of the Dominion.
6 - Starfleet is too busy fighting the Cardassians to adequately defend Deep Space 9 as thousands of Dominion ships come pouring through the wormhole to support the now crippled Cardassians. Deep Space 9 and Bajor fall to the Dominion as they seek to control the wormhole.
7 - Unaware of the true nature of the Founders, their operatives suddenly strike all over the Federation and the Klingon Empire, crippling them.
8 - Federation planets along the way to Earth from the wormhole fall to the Dominion with the overstretched Starfleet unable to protect them. The Klingon Empire withdraws within its own borders and prepares for a fight to the death.
9 - The Federation desperately seeks allies amongst the Ferengi, the Tholians, the Romulans etc, but their previously hostile dealings cause their requests to fall on deaf ears.
10 - Vulcan, Andoria, Tellar Prime and finally Earth fall to the Dominion.
11 - What's left of the Federation and the Klingon Empires inflict massive but ultimately affordable casualties on the Dominion, fighting for every last system, but cannot hold out. The Federation is forced to surrender while out of honour the Klingon Empire fights to the last man.
12 - The Dominion gradually picks off the smaller powers until only the Romulans are left...
1 - Starfleet becomes more aggressive in its dealings with the Cardassians.
2 - The Cardassians step up their plans to invade Minos Korva and pull their troops off of Bajor to support it. (See the Star Trek Chronology - according to that, the two things are directly linked)
3 - The Cardassians attack Minos Korva without having their ships mined by the crew of the Enterprise. The Federation invokes the Khitomer Accords and suddenly the Cardassians have to fight a war on two fronts when they could barely afford one. The Romulans sit back and laugh while their enemies fight each other.
4 - Starfleet takes over Terok Nor much sooner and then discovers the wormhole. They start poking their nose around the Gamma Quadrant and provoke the Dominion much sooner.
5 - The desperate Cardassians secretly negotiate membership of the Dominion.
6 - Starfleet is too busy fighting the Cardassians to adequately defend Deep Space 9 as thousands of Dominion ships come pouring through the wormhole to support the now crippled Cardassians. Deep Space 9 and Bajor fall to the Dominion as they seek to control the wormhole.
7 - Unaware of the true nature of the Founders, their operatives suddenly strike all over the Federation and the Klingon Empire, crippling them.
8 - Federation planets along the way to Earth from the wormhole fall to the Dominion with the overstretched Starfleet unable to protect them. The Klingon Empire withdraws within its own borders and prepares for a fight to the death.
9 - The Federation desperately seeks allies amongst the Ferengi, the Tholians, the Romulans etc, but their previously hostile dealings cause their requests to fall on deaf ears.
10 - Vulcan, Andoria, Tellar Prime and finally Earth fall to the Dominion.
11 - What's left of the Federation and the Klingon Empires inflict massive but ultimately affordable casualties on the Dominion, fighting for every last system, but cannot hold out. The Federation is forced to surrender while out of honour the Klingon Empire fights to the last man.
12 - The Dominion gradually picks off the smaller powers until only the Romulans are left...
Excellent supposition. It makes you think that Picard was right on insisting upon catching Maxwell in the first place. Maked "The Wounded" all the more poignant an episode.
However, what would Picard and co, and even Kirk (through Shatnerverse), do in such a universe?
RobertScorpio
Pariah
No, actually it doesn't. It leaves out the most important part...Sisko as the Emissary. The only thing that saved the Alpha Quadrant from defeat was the destruction of the Dominion Fleet in the worm hole. If Sisko ends up there on DS9 in this altered future, it would have happened again..
Sorry..good try...but leaving out Sisko guts your entire alternate future..
Rob
^It generally assumes that someone else would have gotten the job. He was about to quit Starfleet, remember ?
Perhaps he would have decided that Jake was too young to live in such an environment.
Or, another possibility, the takeover of DS9 is a military conquest by Starfleet and the Klingons rather than the Bajorans asking for help. The Bajorans then tell the Federation that they don't want anything to do with them and Sisko never meets the Kai.
Perhaps he would have decided that Jake was too young to live in such an environment.
Or, another possibility, the takeover of DS9 is a military conquest by Starfleet and the Klingons rather than the Bajorans asking for help. The Bajorans then tell the Federation that they don't want anything to do with them and Sisko never meets the Kai.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
Or he still comes to DS9. We'll never know. But what if in step 3 Q steps in and prevents it from happening..or what if the doomsday machine comes back to life and destroys this or that...
What we have here is an alternate time line where certain things happen built upon others. Plausible? Yes.
But don't forget; Sisko was ALWAYS destined to take his place as Emissary. For this alternate time to happen the Dominion would have to time travel into the past and kill sisko as a kid...
SISKO is the trump card in all of this..
Rob
^Man, I was just having a bit of fun. Read the first sentence!
Marvel's What If stories are an occasional series where the alternative possibilities surrounding a major or even a minor event in the real continuity are explored.
They almost invariably have significantly worse outcomes than what really happened.
Marvel's What If stories are an occasional series where the alternative possibilities surrounding a major or even a minor event in the real continuity are explored.
They almost invariably have significantly worse outcomes than what really happened.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
I actually see it turning out the way you said it would. You certainly KNOW your star trek!!!
Rob
Rob
Yeah it sounds plausible. I think advance conflict with the Cardassians would not necessarily have prevented the Dominion War. Once the wormhole was opened, it was only a matter of time before the Dominion struck. In some ways, having a cold war buildup against the Cardassians, and the skirmishes with the Klingons, prepped the Federation to fight the Dominion War.
But if the Klingons and the Feds fought together, then the Cardies would have fallen extremely fast.
You remember what the Klingons did to the Cardies before the Dominion came to the scene?
I think combined forces of SF and Klingon Empire would cause Cardassia to fall much sooner than expected.
Also, neither the Klingons or the Feds would have suffered nearly enough casualties to have them ripe for Dominions picking.
Besides, I think most of the events would remain similar when the Wormhole opens (apart from the fact that all resources in former Cardies space would now belong to the Feds and Klingons).
Even if the Dominion decided to send a fleet of 2000 ships into the AQ, I think combined forces of Feds and Klingons, and DS9 would have drove them out.
Also let's keep in mind of the possibility that the wormholes entrance could simply be destroyed early on just in case.
You remember what the Klingons did to the Cardies before the Dominion came to the scene?
I think combined forces of SF and Klingon Empire would cause Cardassia to fall much sooner than expected.
Also, neither the Klingons or the Feds would have suffered nearly enough casualties to have them ripe for Dominions picking.
Besides, I think most of the events would remain similar when the Wormhole opens (apart from the fact that all resources in former Cardies space would now belong to the Feds and Klingons).
Even if the Dominion decided to send a fleet of 2000 ships into the AQ, I think combined forces of Feds and Klingons, and DS9 would have drove them out.
Also let's keep in mind of the possibility that the wormholes entrance could simply be destroyed early on just in case.
The Federation did listen to Maxwell. Considering that he had absolutely no evidence of Cardassian wrongdoing [1], however, the Federation was better-advised to stop their insane Captains from murdering Cardassians and shattering the alliance the Federation had finally gained with the Cardassians. It would have been much better had the Dominion been forced to find an even weaker player to be their Alpha Quadrant dupes.
[1] Picard asks Maxwell for his evidence that a Cardassian science base was not actually a science base. Maxwell refuses to provide this evidence. Should such evidence exist, it would prove Maxwell to be correct and would force Picard to take Maxwell's side, which are things Maxwell allegedly wanted. Since Maxwell refused to provide this evidence, then Maxwell must understand that his `evidence' cannot be provided.
Yes. So were the Klingons about the Cardassians.
If Maxwell, Jellico, and the Klingons had been heeded, the Dominion War would have been very different--possibly avoided altogether.
But you can't just go around attacking others without real proof. Maxwell never gave any so the Feds had no choice but to OBEY THEIR OWN LAWS over this and arrest him.
Jellico knew the importance of peace, he was the one who negotiated the original cease-fire to begin with!
The Klingons? The only reason they attacked was because they were Dominion puppets at the time. The devastation of Cardassia was done BY THE DOMINION to weaken them enough that they'd be easy to control.
Jellico knew the importance of peace, he was the one who negotiated the original cease-fire to begin with!
The Klingons? The only reason they attacked was because they were Dominion puppets at the time. The devastation of Cardassia was done BY THE DOMINION to weaken them enough that they'd be easy to control.
hellsgate
Commodore
Hmmmm.....
Anyone think this would make for an interesting post-D.W. fan fiction idea?
Maxwell is back - with a new crew, a new ship, & an old score to settle. The Cardassians, badly broken but not destroyed, contend with Kirk-style, old school cowboy diplomacy while licking their wounds from The Battle Of Chin'toka & trying to keep ahead of potential nemeses of Starfleet's (litteral) & political nightmares.
Anyone think this would make for an interesting post-D.W. fan fiction idea?
Maxwell is back - with a new crew, a new ship, & an old score to settle. The Cardassians, badly broken but not destroyed, contend with Kirk-style, old school cowboy diplomacy while licking their wounds from The Battle Of Chin'toka & trying to keep ahead of potential nemeses of Starfleet's (litteral) & political nightmares.
I wonder. If the Cardassians hadn't offered themselves so readily, it would seem reasonable that the Dominion would have kept looking for stronger allies, and might eventually have found some. Say, the Romulans, full of hubris about "handling" the Dominion.
The proximity of Cardassia to the wormhole didn't amount to much in the end. All the Dominion really needed was a base in Alpha where to prepare a decisively sized fleet to take the Alpha end of the wormhole from the Alpha side, after which the Bajoran system would essentially become both their bridgehead and their main base, as reinforcements poured through. The base for the preparations could have been quite distant from Bajor, as we remember that Bajor wasn't exactly surrounded by Federation or Klingon or Romulan territory or otherwise easily defensible. An invasion fleet could come all the way from, say, Romulus or Qo'noS or Thol or whichever ally the Founders picked, and proceed to Bajor basically unhindered.
Where do we learn this? It might be that the ship he captured in "The Ship" had something to do with this, but that's sheer speculation. Just as probably, Starfleet R&D simply analyzed what went wrong with the Odyssey.
Well, the Klingons did have that old Betreka score to settle. And they did seem to have superior guns; Cardassians have always portrayed as military wimps, an entire fleet of their biggest ships being no match to the Enterprise or the pre-"WotW" , only partially upgraded DS9.
It wouldn't have taken much to incite Gowron into launching a military campaign, for reasons of internal politics alone. And the Cardassians would have been the natural target, both because they were so easy, and because they had acquired a new strategic significance as neighbors to the wormhole. The Dominion involvement seemed limited to whispering in a few already receptive ears, and doesn't seem to have entailed any "devastation" prior to the Klingon attack.
Timo Saloniemi
That's far more logical than what the dialogue in "Call to Arms" suggested. Weyoun is surprised when Deep Space Nine's shields hold after their initial barrage but Dukat just says "Benjamin Sisko!"
It's the only real evidence we do have. Not even a line saying "Starfleet Engineering is looking in to the problem".
