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Was Beyond a commentary on how poorly the US govt. treats armed forces veterans?

My reading of STB was that it addressed how a society can put soldiers into violent, traumatic situations for the duration of a war, and then forget about them or cast them aside once the war is over, providing little or no support to them as they transition out of that role.
 
The trauma of battle changes people in unexpected ways. Dealing with the end of your era and having to fit into a new mold that chafes at everything you are does, too. It's hard to be a member of a dying breed. Everybody expects you to adapt overnight.
 
My reading of STB was that it addressed how a society can put soldiers into violent, traumatic situations for the duration of a war, and then forget about them or cast them aside once the war is over, providing little or no support to them as they transition out of that role.
Edison got a promotion, he was not cast aside. He probably put up a good front that he was part of the new regime as shown on the video clip on the USS Franklin.
 
Edison got a promotion, he was not cast aside. He probably put up a good front that he was part of the new regime as shown on the video clip on the USS Franklin.
The idea was that they kinda gave him a badge and put him on the ship out of sight and out of mind.
 
Edison got a promotion, he was not cast aside. He probably put up a good front that he was part of the new regime as shown on the video clip on the USS Franklin.

Helping soldiers readjust after a war means a lot more than just giving them a better, cushier job. That's exactly the problem in STB. He needs emotional and psychological support to ease him back into society. A system in place that understands he can't just turn off his training and wartime experience, mentally or emotionally, and assists him in that transition. Just giving him a ship and saying "Thanks for winning the war! Bye!" is not really postwar support.
 
To be fair, we don't really know how much postwar support he actually got, only that he eventually gets to captain the Franklin. It's possible he was in counseling for a time and bluffed them, it's possible they thought he was doing better than he was, it's possible they thought he really needed to captain a ship again.

"Tales of the Dominion War" does include a story about a soldier having some trouble readjusting, though it's set fairly immediately after the episode in which he appeared rather than being a long-term tale.
 
Helping soldiers readjust after a war means a lot more than just giving them a better, cushier job. That's exactly the problem in STB. He needs emotional and psychological support to ease him back into society. A system in place that understands he can't just turn off his training and wartime experience, mentally or emotionally, and assists him in that transition. Just giving him a ship and saying "Thanks for winning the war! Bye!" is not really postwar support.
Actually, if he hadn't gotten sucked down a wormhole and stranded on a deserted planet, he probably would have finished his Starfleet career and gone off to retirement with a really nice pension, a pretty wife and a small fluffy dog to play with in a big house in the suburbs. OR he would have spent the rest of his days hanging out un Rigelian nudie bars until he eventually died from space herpes.

It's not like Starfleet ordered him to Altamid and then forgot about him. They gave him a job, and he GOT LOST. Even if they knew he was alive -- which they didn't -- they had no way of finding him, let alone debriefing him and giving him whatever support he might still need in the aftermath.

This isn't a story about a soldier being abandoned by his government and "not getting help to readjust to society." This is a story about a soldier getting shipwrecked, going native, going crazy, and then going home to inflict his crazy on the people he inexplicably blames for shipwrecking him in the first place. You're thinking "John Rambo" when he's actually Walter E. Kurtz.
 
Actually, if he hadn't gotten sucked down a wormhole and stranded on a deserted planet, he probably would have finished his Starfleet career and gone off to retirement with a really nice pension, a pretty wife and a small fluffy dog to play with in a big house in the suburbs. OR he would have spent the rest of his days hanging out un Rigelian nudie bars until he eventually died from space herpes.

It's not like Starfleet ordered him to Altamid and then forgot about him. They gave him a job, and he GOT LOST. Even if they knew he was alive -- which they didn't -- they had no way of finding him, let alone debriefing him and giving him whatever support he might still need in the aftermath.

This isn't a story about a soldier being abandoned by his government and "not getting help to readjust to society." This is a story about a soldier getting shipwrecked, going native, going crazy, and then going home to inflict his crazy on the people he inexplicably blames for shipwrecking him in the first place. You're thinking "John Rambo" when he's actually Walter E. Kurtz.
My point is he shouldn't have just been given a ship and told bon voyage in the first place. He should have been given emotional, psychological, and social guidance to adjust to peacetime society upon his return from the war. You're putting the cart before the horse.
 
My point is he shouldn't have just been given a ship and told bon voyage in the first place. He should have been given emotional, psychological, and social guidance to adjust to peacetime society upon his return from the war. You're putting the cart before the horse.
And where is the evidence in the movie that he and the rest of the Xindi or Romulan war veterans did not? Assuming any present day stigma to PTSD has long gone in human society, (its the 22nd century, humanity has experienced three world wars and millennia of civil wars, they should learn from the past of their warlike ancestors) some kind of psychological counselling after experiencing Earth's very first intergalatic conflict should be par for the course.
 
Edison thought people in the Federation were snowflakes, in the parlance of the today. He thought they were weak and the Federation abandoned him and his kind by making peace with and embracing former enemies as friends and allies.

You'll find parallels for this throughout history but there's plenty to chew on in today's world. For instance, the historical and reincarnated "America First" movement became resurgent as "Terra Prime." None of this is new. Many soldiers maintain prejudices against those they fought against.

I don't think it really gets into how the Federation treated Edison other than him being given a command after the MACOS were disbanded.

We saw/see the same thing with Chief O'Brien and the Cardassians... he still doesn't get along with them or like being in their company; although he has stated that he doesn't hate Cardassians, he hates what they (the war) turned him into.
 
We saw/see the same thing with Chief O'Brien and the Cardassians... he still doesn't get along with them or like being in their company; although he has stated that he doesn't hate Cardassians, he hates what they (the war) turned him into.
And in Chief O'Brien's & Captain Maxwell's era of the 24th century, counsellors on starships is a standard norm. The Federation has members who are telepaths, hearing thoughts is as normal for them as humans hearing sounds. I doubt veterans of the Battle of Setlik III or other Cardessian border wars were left to their own devices. It is possible to fool a counsellor, unless they are a telepath.
So unless there is a novelisation of STB I am going to assume Edison either 1. Did not avail himself of counselling treatments Or 2. Managed to fool his doctor OR 3. Did not succumb to the stress until his ship got 'Lost in Space', what happened to his crew and ship was enough to drive anyone insane. No matter what counselling sessions he might have had back home.
To paraphrase Quark Take away a humans modern, creature comforts and they resort to their barbaric selves.

Quark - "Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don't believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes."
 
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My point is he shouldn't have just been given a ship and told bon voyage in the first place. He should have been given emotional, psychological, and social guidance to adjust to peacetime society upon his return from the war.
What the hell for? He was obviously functional enough to command a starship, and thus perfectly capable of using his particular skill set in peace time. The whole thing about "transitioning to peacetime" is what happens to veterans who AREN'T going to pursue a military or at least paramilitary career and now have to readjust to civilian life after years and years of martial service; it's a total career and lifestyle change that is sometimes difficult to process.

"Difficulty switching to civilian life" wasn't Eddison's problem. "Got stranded on uncharted planet and ate my entire crew to survive" was Eddison's problem. No amount of counseling and social guidance is going to help him with THAT.

You're putting the cart before the horse.
No, I'm putting the guy who survived in exile for a hundred years by eating people alive before some misplaced political narrative about veterans turning into snowflakes in peacetime. Those are really not related concepts.
 
So unless there is a novelisation of STB I am going to assume Edison either 1. Did not avail himself of counselling treatments Or 2. Managed to fool his doctor OR 3. Did not succumb to the stress until his ship got 'Lost in Space', what happened to his crew and ship was enough to drive anyone insane. No matter what counselling sessions he might have had back home.
3 is by far the most likely explanation, considering it's basically the same reason why Ronald Tracey and Will Decker lost their shit, and they weren't even stranded for a whole century.

Also, it's entirely possible that Garth of Izar is the case study this thread is ACTUALLY looking for. Suppose he started getting loopy after years of fighting border wars against the Klingons and his paranoid delusions didn't become really evident until he tried to wipe out Antos IV? His megalomania in "Whom Gods Destroy" could just as easily be a reaction to his antipsychotics causing him to swing too far in the opposite direction; he goes from paranoid delusions of persecution to unhinged delusions of grandeur.
 
I'm with Crazy Eddie here all the way. Although since we know so very little about the years of Edison's service (especially between ENT and Edison's last day in MACO, the supposed era of the Romulan War), we could also go the Larry Niven route and assume that it was the entire United Earth that was bipolar.

That is, in the aftermath of WWIII, the world government's "never again" campaign made use of the latest in (Vulcan?) mind control techniques and slowly turned all Earthlings into softies like Archer, fiercely opposed to anything that might look like war effort. But when the Kzinti, sorry, the Xindi came, they had to quickly locate the surviving homicidal maniacs and send them to the front, then medicate more of the population into the same bloodlusty state of mind to meet the demands of the front. Basically, you had to be insane to get to wear the uniform, even if only temporarily. And immediately after the war, the UFP Starfleet couldn't find any other professionals for their job openings but these veterans of government-sponsored mood swings.

Timo Saloniemi
 
I'm with Crazy Eddie here all the way. Although since we know so very little about the years of Edison's service (especially between ENT and Edison's last day in MACO, the supposed era of the Romulan War), we could also go the Larry Niven route and assume that it was the entire United Earth that was bipolar.

That is, in the aftermath of WWIII, the world government's "never again" campaign made use of the latest in (Vulcan?) mind control techniques and slowly turned all Earthlings into softies like Archer, fiercely opposed to anything that might look like war effort.

They put LSD and Valium in the water

But when the Kzinti, sorry, the Xindi came, they had to quickly locate the surviving homicidal maniacs and send them to the front, then medicate more of the population into the same bloodlusty state of mind to meet the demands of the front. Basically, you had to be insane to get to wear the uniform, even if only temporarily.

And gave them tampered spliffs


And immediately after the war, the UFP Starfleet couldn't find any other professionals for their job openings but these veterans of government-sponsored mood swings.
Timo Saloniemi

If they had listened to the Vulcans' advice to contact a race of peoples called The Betazoids, it would have never happened. But no Starfleet kept repeating "You've been bossing us about for 100 years! No more I tell ya, no more!"
T'Pau's reply was 'Leave those illogical beings to their fate'
 
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...The interesting thing here is why Edison went mad, as opposed to just flying home.

It's a timeline question, fundamentally. Edison gets aboard the Franklin, hits a wormhole and lands (rather softly, it seems) on Altamid, a planet too far to allow contact with the Federation and supposedly a prison because of two things:

1) The Franklin might be damaged (but as we see, she's not fatally damaged).
2) Altamid is surrounded by an impenetrable rubble nebula.

But there are resources on Altamid that would allow Edison to fly home in defiance of both the above points. An ancient culture has assets down on the planet, and those assets could be used for repairing the Franklin or directly for flying home. We see Edison do the latter in the movie.

Now, when exactly did Edison find out about the assets? He dictates his final, "I'm already crazy" log aboard his ship, but we later see he has abandoned that ship and lives with the Ancients. Since the Franklin remains partially buried in rock at the time, we know Edison has made no effort to repair her and fly her against that rubble nebula in search of a way out. But we also know the ships of the Ancients can fly out of the nebula on their own.

What makes the nebula less than impenetrable all of a sudden? The wussy Starfleet thinks only Kirk's ship can go in there. But one of the Magellan probes did get through all the way to where it could be grabbed by Edison. It's through Magellan that Edison can make contact with the Federation, and perhaps chart his way out of the nebula for the first time, too. But he doesn't use Magellan that way - so he must have become crazy/Krall at that point already.

So, what's the timeline? Does Edison sit in his ship until all but three are dead, go mad, then dictate his log, wander down the mountains, and meet his means of survival? Or does he wander down first, realize that Ancient tech allows him to survive by eating his own crew alive, and use that means of survival, driving himself mad in the process (but not yet becoming visibly Krall so that he can dictate his last angry log in human form)?

The latter sounds a bit likelier. Why would a sane Edison fail to walk down the mountains and meet the Ancients? His crashed ship still has sensors - our heroes use those later on, and I doubt Jaylah's efforts were crucial in making the sensors work "again". And the Ancients aren't difficult to find or far away. Also, how would Edison survive with that Ancient tech if he had nobody left to eat alive? It doesn't seem as if the Ancient drones themselves can provide the life-prolonging nutrition; Edison needs "real" humanoids, and he didn't eat his two remaining pals.

So at the end of this tirade, where do we stand? At the edge of the conclusion that the alien mind-sucking technology may well have been the one crucial item dictating that Edison go insane. His previous personality and career might well be completely irrelevant to the argument.

Timo Saloniemi
 
^Why didn't Edison use the technology to repair his ship and do a Voyager style trip, ('its gonna take 100 years to get back, so start pairing up and reproducing folks'!)? Either he had gone mad already OR its another Star Trek black plothole.
 
Heh, it would take a generation ship to get through the rubble the way Kirk does: supposedly, Yorktown is not in the Altamid star system, yet the rubble is so dense at both ends that the ship moves at a crawling pace, meaning it would take millions of years for her to cross the distance...

Hopefully, the rubble allows for warping in the middle, and is only superdense right next to Yorktown and Altamid. Although how that could happen is a bit weird. I mean, yes, it might be there's lots of interstellar rubble in the region, and gravity clusters it superdensely around the star systems and their planets but not in between. Yet Altamid appears surrounded from all sides, but travel to Yorktown is simple from one side (even if it takes place through some sort of space dust that makes the warp effect look like a bullet flying through a fluid ;) ). How does that happen? Is Yorktown just outside some other star system? And if so, why does Krall emerge from the rubble surrounding that system when attacking the station? Why not fly around, along the putative less densely obstructed routes?

It might be an idea worth ruminating that Yorktown indeed sits just a couple of AUs away from Altamid, on the outskirts of a star system that for some reason is referred to as a "nebula" by Starfleet...

Timo Saloniemi
 
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