^ Thank you, Bill.
Warpath Discussion Thread (major, major spoilers)
- Thread starter Brendan Moody
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OK - now I feel like I didn't express myself right. "Sullied" is not how it felt, and I really didn't mean to criticise or anything. So if that's how it came across then I sincerely apologise.
At the risk of not saying it right again, I saw Vaughn's grief as a more continuous theme of the story (up to the point where they meet) rather than just in the moment of Prynn's supposed death. (Like William Leisner said, the story moved on towards Prynn in the next chapter.) So sorry for the mix-up...
I take it you've never read a David Mack novel before.
If anything, it was a surprise that these characters didn't die.
Christopher said:
I take it you've never read a David Mack novel before.
I was pretty shocked that neither Ro nor Kira nor Prynn nor Vaughn bought the farm myself. Hell, the only canonical character who kicked the bucket was Mirror Kira!
Like all of the DS9 Relaunch novels, I really enjoyed this book and can’t wait for the next one. In my view, the more you take advantage of the saga format and the large Trek universe the better. That means plot twists, building upon characters and being self-referential to re-enforce the relaunchverse. Staying with something previously established (be it preganglionic fibres, Tribbles on Qo'noS, the three brothers or Korena) can really add to the feeling that it is a world (or, more specifically, universe), not just a series of stories.
I think this novel does a good job of building upon and taking advantage the Trekverse, but the basic premise didn't really lend itself to as much politics and mysteries as I like (although variation is also important) and at times could even be cheesy (but always well-written). Saying that, it contained some important arcs and possibly a few non-blatant seeds that will become more important as the series progresses.
In the vision sequences, which I thought were quite good they are one of the things that make DS9 unique, the acronyms were a little off-putting. Was this done to avoid having to think up names, to allow for deeper meaning to be conveyed/direct parallels (relating to those characters and ships named - e.g. Bashir/Shirabbeing an apothecary and so on), as an in-reference, to inform readers that it is fictitious... or for some other reason?
Is Ensign Salmak (p. 200) by any chance a reference to Stargate SG-1's Selmak?
Next for me to read: KRAD's Serenity novelisation.
I think this novel does a good job of building upon and taking advantage the Trekverse, but the basic premise didn't really lend itself to as much politics and mysteries as I like (although variation is also important) and at times could even be cheesy (but always well-written). Saying that, it contained some important arcs and possibly a few non-blatant seeds that will become more important as the series progresses.
In the vision sequences, which I thought were quite good they are one of the things that make DS9 unique, the acronyms were a little off-putting. Was this done to avoid having to think up names, to allow for deeper meaning to be conveyed/direct parallels (relating to those characters and ships named - e.g. Bashir/Shirabbeing an apothecary and so on), as an in-reference, to inform readers that it is fictitious... or for some other reason?
Is Ensign Salmak (p. 200) by any chance a reference to Stargate SG-1's Selmak?
Next for me to read: KRAD's Serenity novelisation.
Probably criticised it for being too predictable if you've seen the movie, which in turn is terrible because it is easy to anticipated if you have read the teleplay that was foreseeable for readers of the comic adaptionKRAD said:
I wouldn't bother. I read on Amazon.com that it sucked.
.
The Prophets presented Kira with a vision of an event that would take place, and that her actions would dictate how the events would play out. For me, it was only natural that the characters presented in the vision would be variants of the people Kira sees in her everyday life. (BTW: Dave did a stellar job making 'Bajora' names for the DS9 crew. Totally cool, although Denigarro threw me off for a long time until I got it) For me, to have someone consider that all Dave was doing was copping out of thinking original character names is copping out of actually thinking beyond the surface, to actually assess what's going on moment to moment, page to page. Then again, let's just say that the last point is MY own opinion, not to say that I'm right or not.
KRAD said:
I wouldn't bother. I read on Amazon.com that it sucked.
It most assuredly did not suck. It was a very fun way to re-experience the film before it was released on DVD!
However, I will say this:
The story of Firefly/Serenity is one of deep existentialist agnst. It's about pain and despair, about the struggle to find meaning in a meaningless life. (IMO, anyway.) And in all honestly, I don't think that your novelization captured that foundamental sense of pain as well as I would have liked.
What your novelization did capture was the humor and the excitement and the sense of adventure, and that is by no means a bad thing. However, in reading the novelization, the sense that I got was one of a universe in which existentialist pain is a deviation from a relatively decent existence rather than one in which a relatively decent existence is a deviation from an existentially painful life.
The characters, as a general rule, were captured very well. You were right on the money with Kaylee, Wash, and Simon, and I enjoyed your interpretation of River quite a bit. Your insights into the Operative were also very valuable to me as a reader and a Browncoat. Your take on Mal seemed to emphasize his sense of sardonic humor over his inner rage and pain; that's not an invalid interpretation, though it's not one that I agree with, and you did capture that part of Mal's personality very well. Some characters just continue to elude me, just as they did in the series, though -- Zoe, mostly.
Reading the novelization, it did occur to me that the general tone that I get from the series and the film is more akin to the general tone of a David Mack book than a Keith RA DeCandido book. Your writing style reflects a more foundamentally positive, optimistic outlook on life -- it's perfect for some characters, to be sure, though not all. It is, however, absolutely perfect for capturing Whedon's sometimes very off-beat sense of humor. Mr. Mack's writing, on the other hand, seems to reflect a more pained and pessimistic outlook on life. I suppose that at the end of the day, if we're talking Trek authors writing the book, my ideal Serenity novelization would be a collaboration between you and Mack -- Mack to capture Whedon's pain, and you to capture Whedon's humor. (I once made a similar comment about the tones of your and Mr. Mack's writing styles on this BBS, and David told me that he found it interesting, appreciated the analysis, and thinks that it's reflective of your general personalities. Not knowing either one of you in real life, I can't comment any further, but I thought I'd throw that out.)
So I'd say it was a pretty good novelization. It captured the humor and excitement, and while I think it could have stood to be a bit more depressing (
), it was a goodly book. :thumbsup:
^ Dave's absolutely right in the differences between our personalities -- we're both cynics, but he's far more pessimistic than I -- and now I'm real curious as to what you thought of the story we did collaborate on: Invincible for S.C.E.
(And thanks for the comments on Serenity, even if it wasn't depressing enough. :thumbsup
(And thanks for the comments on Serenity, even if it wasn't depressing enough. :thumbsup
KRAD said:
^ Dave's absolutely right in the differences between our personalities -- we're both cynics, but he's far more pessimistic than I -- and now I'm real curious as to what you thought of the story we did collaborate on: Invincible for S.C.E.
I honestly haven't read it, nor did I realize you two had collaborated; I'll try to keep it in mind next time I have extra money!
(And thanks for the comments on Serenity, even if it wasn't depressing enough. :thumbsup
No problem! Like I said, it was still a thoroughly enjoyable book.
^ Gold star for Mary Dax.
Bugger.
Awesome discussion, folks! Thank you all!
As noted in the text, Prynn is remembering specifically how he looked at the end of Paradigm, during Thriss's Sending.
Actually, if you count Kira's flatlining early in the novel, it may accurately be said that Kira dies twice in Warpath.
And here I thought it was to offer a haven for homeless wildlife.
The sick ones, sure.
Note to self: cancel plans for DS9/Futurama crossover in Fearful Symmetry.
Yes.
That's fitting, as I've made no secret of the fact that Remata'klan was the inspiration for Taran'atar.
Fragments and Omens from Worlds of DS9, Volume Two paints a picture of the transition process, and some of the issues it raises.
As noted in the text, Prynn is remembering specifically how he looked at the end of Paradigm, during Thriss's Sending.
Actually, if you count Kira's flatlining early in the novel, it may accurately be said that Kira dies twice in Warpath.
And here I thought it was to offer a haven for homeless wildlife.
TerriO said:
Besides, for some women, scruffy is a good thing on a man.
The sick ones, sure.
Note to self: cancel plans for DS9/Futurama crossover in Fearful Symmetry.
Yes.
That's fitting, as I've made no secret of the fact that Remata'klan was the inspiration for Taran'atar.
Fragments and Omens from Worlds of DS9, Volume Two paints a picture of the transition process, and some of the issues it raises.
OK, I know I'm very, very, very late to the game here, but, believe it or not, I finally read each and every post-finale DS9 novel! (Feels weird to be caught up...)
A lot of what I wanted to say about the novel has already been said, so in the interest of avoiding redundancy, I'll keep this short:
*I knew who the Cardassian Woman was going to be.
*Swift pace is a big plus.
*I liked the various opponents of the Cardassian woman, and the Nausicaan was a particular favorite - I was sad to see him bite the dust!
*Most of the interaction between the characters was fine - in particular, the scene between Sisko and Quark was quiet, short, and beautiful. However, as much as I like Vaughn and Tenmei on their own merits, I'm so tired of them causing each other pain needlessly (and for pages and pages in every book!) that I'm having the same reaction to them as I had to Jack Bauer's family in the first season of 24 - namely, that I've started WANTING them to die so that the characters can finally move on instead of repeating the same old cycle. David, I hope you've put the capper on the twists and turns of that relationship for good - you mentioned that they've been given a "new beginning," and I'm going to take you at your word until proven otherwise.
*Also happy that no new romantic relationships developed over the course of the story. Out of all the romances post-finale DS9 novels have explored, the only one I enjoyed was between Quark and Ro - and KRAD pulled a Mack and killed that one! Right on the heels of the thankful end to the Dax and Bashir shenanigans, too...
*Was glad to see the annotations explaining the Etana business, because I was getting really confused...
*David, this is actually the first work of yours that I've read, although you apparently co-wrote two of my favorite DS9 episodes. I liked your prose style - spare and simple but not simplistic, efficient without lacking grace. The story felt a bit too open-ended for my tastes, but, all things considered, I'm probably just suffering from the sudden realization that I don't have any more DS9 books to look forward to for another year after reading all of them during the past four or five months. I'm used to the story continuing right after I finish a book...I dunno if I like this whole patience business.
Anyway, it's 5 in the morning and I'm sleepy. Good night!
-historypeats
A lot of what I wanted to say about the novel has already been said, so in the interest of avoiding redundancy, I'll keep this short:
*I knew who the Cardassian Woman was going to be.
*Swift pace is a big plus.
*I liked the various opponents of the Cardassian woman, and the Nausicaan was a particular favorite - I was sad to see him bite the dust!
*Most of the interaction between the characters was fine - in particular, the scene between Sisko and Quark was quiet, short, and beautiful. However, as much as I like Vaughn and Tenmei on their own merits, I'm so tired of them causing each other pain needlessly (and for pages and pages in every book!) that I'm having the same reaction to them as I had to Jack Bauer's family in the first season of 24 - namely, that I've started WANTING them to die so that the characters can finally move on instead of repeating the same old cycle. David, I hope you've put the capper on the twists and turns of that relationship for good - you mentioned that they've been given a "new beginning," and I'm going to take you at your word until proven otherwise.
*Also happy that no new romantic relationships developed over the course of the story. Out of all the romances post-finale DS9 novels have explored, the only one I enjoyed was between Quark and Ro - and KRAD pulled a Mack and killed that one! Right on the heels of the thankful end to the Dax and Bashir shenanigans, too...
*Was glad to see the annotations explaining the Etana business, because I was getting really confused...
*David, this is actually the first work of yours that I've read, although you apparently co-wrote two of my favorite DS9 episodes. I liked your prose style - spare and simple but not simplistic, efficient without lacking grace. The story felt a bit too open-ended for my tastes, but, all things considered, I'm probably just suffering from the sudden realization that I don't have any more DS9 books to look forward to for another year after reading all of them during the past four or five months. I'm used to the story continuing right after I finish a book...I dunno if I like this whole patience business.
Anyway, it's 5 in the morning and I'm sleepy. Good night!
-historypeats
Kudos Mary Dax....and all I have to say now is WOW!!!! I re-read "Warpath", and it made a whole lot of sense to me now before stumbling on this, and what triggered it was a line in "Ties of Blood And Water" that Kira was telling Tekeny that there was no sight, no word on Illiana and that if she were 'still on Bajor, she'd been working underground for 'x' years'. And NOW, I'm inclined to go back to my review and alter it slightly to really thank Dave for solidifying my position on Gul Dukat: he is a BASTARD, and the epitome of EVIL.
But now my anticipation for 'Fearful Symmetry' is that much higher...Tekeny Ghemor's daugther vs. Tekeny Ghemor's adopted daughter from the SAME universe...I think I answered my own question from another post when someone asked how "The Lotus Flower" might play into the further development of this post-WYLB storyline...
1 year is TOO long to wait, but that's reality.....
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