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Warp Engines & Nacelles

James Wright

Commodore
Commodore
In the Enterprise episode "Twilight" Trip tells T'Pol that the ship can't get very far on one warp engine. I thought a nacelle was heavily damaged by the Xindi attack not the warp engine its' self!?
Was this a mistake in the writing of script?

Would there be a problem for a starship to move at warp speeds if one of its' two nacelles are damaged?

James
 
Well, technically the nacelle would be the housing around the warp engines/coils themselves, but generally they are used pretty interchangably. On the context of the episode it makes perfect sense. As for getting by on one engine, we know single nacelle ships exist. The problem is with only half the power output with one engine down as well as being unbalanced with all the power on one side, the remaining nacelle would have to work harder to generate a field that can still move the ship without tearing the whole thing apart. But I could see them still having some warp capability.

My personal nitpick is in the episode Damage when they steal a warp coil from the alien ship.. Enterprise's warp coils are gigantic, and the one they steal is tiny.. And yet it all magically works and is perfectly compatible. I'll accept it for the story though, but I didn't have to like it! :p

Another related nitpick is how they are so heavily damaged yet later on have no problems going to warp, but in the episode Dead Stop they can baely manage warp 2 with far less damage.. I could go on heh! But I don't mean to ramble and hijack the thread. :x
 
Experience. Trip knows from previous damage that he can push this, and favor that and ignore those for the time being and the ship will hold together at speed. He knows this because last time, the ship didn't blow up so maybe we can try pushing that hard again.
 
Well the thing was that while the warp engine by itself was not damaged, the nacelles which are part of it were (or at least one of them was heavily damaged), and Trip mentioned the ship cannot exceed Warp 2,5 I think as a result, therefore not making it anywhere on time.

2 nacelles are needed to create a powerful warp field that would allow a ship travel at faster velocities.
If you only have 1 nacelle working, it's very likely you will need to pump a lot of energy to form a powerful enough field to sustain barely half of your maximum warp velocity.
 
To admit a private heresy: in the back of my mind I have always quietly assumed the "warp core" is just a power generator that collects plasma as a byproduct of the matter-antimatter reaction up in the warp nacelles and uses some [tech] to convert it into useable energy.

Meaning the warp engine IS the nacelle. The core is just a turbine or something that provides power to the ship. Or something like that.

But that's just me.
 
Actually I always thought that myself, with them referring to it as the Warp "reactor" I always thought of it as a power plant. (which was backed up by Voyager - whenever they ejected the core the power went)
 
Yeah I'm pretty sure that's how its supposed to be too, just a power generator. Except on the occasions when its not for some reason.. IE in Insurrection when the core is ejected to seal the subspace rift. What's so special about the core itself that let it do more in that occasion than a photon torpedo would? The core by itself shouldn't have anything to do with subspace, or at least not to the extent the warp engines themselves do. The very term, warp core, has always been something of a misnomer to me for that reason. If DS9 had an antimatter reactor, would they still call it a warp core?
 
The way it's been explained in the past is that the warp core/warp reactor is the actual engine and the nacelles/warp coils are the equivalent of the ships propellers. Not that I buy that, in my own mind the matter/anti-matter reactor produces both high energy plasma and electro-magnetic energy (electricity), what is enclosed within the nacelles is the warp drive, the engines. In some of my ship designs the reactor is also in the nacelles.
 
I've tended to think along those lines as well, as it makes sense for the ship to be slower if one nacelle takes damage.
 
We might do well to think of the warp coils as the "propellers" of the ship, while the matter-antimatter annihilation chamber is the "boiler" and the plasma network is the "axle" (or, in certain types of seagoing vessel, the "electric network" or the "hydraulic network") that transmits the energy created by the boiler.

But the ship would also need a "turbine" to rotate the "axle" (or to run a "generator" for the "electric network" or a "compressor" for the "hydraulic network"). Does the m/am reactor pump out mere unadulterated obeys-known-laws-of-physics annihilation radiation and heat, which is carried in the plasma to the coils which then act as the "turbine" part that converts power to magical space warping? Or does the m/am reactor already pump out a little bit of magic?

There are pros and cons for both ideas. In the newer shows, especially VOY, the warp plasma pumped out by the reactor is a sought-for commodity. Why would all sorts of villains covet "axle grease"? The plasma might indeed already contain some of those "warp particles" that Janeway and Torres got all hot and bothered about in "Parallax", and thus already be partially magical itself. Just any plasma heated up by arbitrary means wouldn't suffice for activating the warp coils - only "warp plasma" would do the trick.

OTOH, we could use ENT as support for the idea that plasma is plasma and energy in plasma is just energy in plasma, and that the warp coils are our equivalent of "turbine" - the first part in the power chain where mundane energies are transformed into magical warp energies. When Archer steals the alien coil, we could argue this coil is a "keystone" piece of the entire coil set, the first coil through which the plasma runs, and the one that converts the incoming plasma energies (heat, EM, other real-world stuff) into magical warp energy. The first coil might not do much in terms of propulsion; the dozen coils in a row behind it would amplify the field into something useful, like additional loops in a coil magnet strengthen the field it generates. But the first, special coil would be absolutely needed in order to get things started.

Probably different starships, especially if built by different species, have subtly different setups. We could argue that the Fed (and Klingon?) system where antimatter annihilation gets routed through dilithium is one of those where the plasma is already magical and the coils are mere "propellers", not "turbines". But we know there are other kinds of systems out there. Perhaps Romulan singularity reactors produce real-world plasma, which gets converted into warp magic later in the process? Or perhaps the principles of the Fed and Romulan systems are the opposite of what's suggested above.

Timo Saloniemi
 
My personal nitpick is in the episode Damage when they steal a warp coil from the alien ship.. Enterprise's warp coils are gigantic, and the one they steal is tiny.. And yet it all magically works and is perfectly compatible. I'll accept it for the story though, but I didn't have to like it! :p

I just think of it as though the warp coils take the drive plasma from the warp core and convert it into warp energy and project it into the warp field. The small warp coil that they stole converts it into warp energy. it may not project the warp field, but they may have enough coils remaining to do that.
 
The problem with this episode wasn't what was a WARP ENGINE vs NACELLE .
The Problem was that ship takes damage to it's Warp COIL (said in dialogue)...HUGE Monstrous Size coils. They attack another ship for it's replacement and they came back with an frickin hand held device....That was the WTH...moment of the series...

(I totally repeated another persons post)
 
I had thought the nacelles were some sort of exhaust system for the warp engines but after reading the responses I'm not so sure anymore.
Is there an exhaust system on warp and impulse engines?

James
 
We only hear of the warp engines "exhausting" anything when there's an emergency and they have to dump the hot plasma. As far as we know, the plasma isn't exhausted, vented, consumed or anything like that during normal operations: it merely circulates inside the system, carrying power from the warp core to the warp coils.

Impulse engines are said to produce an exhaust, but we don't know if it is continuous or intermittent. It doesn't appear to be a rocket jet or anything like that, though.

Warp engines apparently always leave a "signature", though - perhaps some sort of a wake in the local structure of subspace. Impulse engines are not stated to do so; they may leave occasional traces, and an impulse turn may manifest as energy readings even when other signs of the ship are obscured ("Balance of Terror" and ST2), but an impulse trail is a rarity and only seems to be present in exceptional circumstances.

Timo Saloniemi
 
In addition to the above examples I recall in TNG: Relics, Scotty mentions the distribution of ions produced by the enterprise trying to go full reverse with its impulse. Impulse clearly has some sort of exhaust but I can't imagine that's the primary thrust component.. Too much mass, not enough fuel. But we do know there is a subspace component to them as well to lower the apparant mass..

As for warp signatures I imagine they are the side effects of the distortions in subspace made as the ship warps. Since every ship has its own warpfield configuration you can identify a ship that way. But I don't think under normal cirumstances the warp engines have an exhaust directly. As you say, the plasma is simply recycled. my belief is there is a finite supply of plasma in the system, instead of constantly being generated by the core it simply energizes the plasma that's already there. This would explain why warp plasma has value, and why it can be a problem when it's vented. I imagine it as like the ship's blood in a way, with the core acting as the "heart".

Okay, ramble over. :)
 
I can't help but remember the line Uhura spoke in Star Trek VI, "Well, the things got to have a iailpipe!"

James
 
Which is a bit weird. What other thing known to Uhura has a tailpipe?

Timo Saloniemi
 
What is ionized gas and how can a photon torpedo be configured to find it if it's not exhausted by a cloaked ship?

James
 
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