WandaVision Director Matt Shakman to helm next Trek movie

[RAMA]

Keep in mind that 3 of these are still "on" or on the back burner. The Hawley script was not canceled, just put on the back burner. The Vazquez script is most likely a Discovery cinematic movie that will coincide with Discovery's 5th and final season (due to its huge success all over the world--being in the top 10 on Netflix in over 70 countries), and the 2023 Matt Shakman movie for the "Kelvin Universe" is being fast-tracked with a spring filming date.

To the naysayers, this is still the first time a director has been tied to both a filming point and a release date...so get ready for the STU....just like I predicted.

RAMA

So this makes the fifth announced production since 2016 by my count:

1) the follow-up that would’ve brought back Chris Hemsworth, sabotaged by Paramount because they tried to skimp on the salaries they’d already committed to for the leads
2) the Tarantino story
3) Josh Hawley’s script
4) Kalinda Vazquez’s script
5) whatever the hell this one is

 

[M'Sharak]

Wonder what the budget for Orcis ST3 would've been , probably similar to ST09 140-150m (Paramount cant have been too happy at IDs 190m budget and mustve wanted the 3rd to cost more in line with ST09) so had it done about the same as BEY 350m mighve been ok to press on with a ST4 for 2018-19

If I'm not mistaken, the increased budget figure for ID was entirely at Paramount's insistence. I seem to recall reading that Abrams initially resisted, insisting he'd be able to produce the next movie on the same budget as the first, but ultimately gave in because Paramount wouldn't budge.

And, as has already been pointed out above, about $30-35m of the Beyond budget figure was directly attributable to pre-production costs on the aborted Orci-script version of ST3. In practical terms, it cost only slightly more to make Beyond than it had the 2009 movie.

 

[NCC-73515]

So did McCoy go to court or court martial between Into Darkness and Beyond? That wasn't in the comics...

What kind of genetic augmentation did he perform?

 

[Isaac Lawrence]

So listening to the All Access podcast the other day, and I guess all of this is Paramount’s motion picture group studio chairman Emma Watts at play...

She sidelined the Noah Hawley movie because it wasn't big enough and she wants a big tent pole type of Star Trek movie. And the Quentin Tarantino movie was never meant to be anything other than a side project anyway.

So she wants to go big.

I knew there was something about Emma Watts that I liked. Last year when she got the job and they said that Star Trek was a (or the) top priority for her, I just immediately liked her for some reason.

Anyway, I suppose you could go big with the Kelvin timeline crew. But at this point, to spend $150, $175, $200 million dollars to intentionally end something would be a little weird to me. And the Kelvin crew was the biggest money making Star Trek, but they were just low-hundreds of million dollar big, not billion dollar big. Billion dollar big you can maybe justify doing a movie send off... Low-hundreds of million dollar big I think you probably just say thank you and it was nice working with you.

So the smart money is probably to take that $150, $175, $200 million dollars and use it to build something new, not to end something.

I guess you could do a movie where you do both, bring one crew to an end, and set up a new crew. But you would only do that if you want to continue the Kelvin timeline. Which at this point with Paramount+ that might be kind of a weird thing to do.

So new movie in the Prime timeline, $150 to $200 million dollar budget. New crew, and get the fans engaged that way by speculating what the new crew will be like. And hopefully get new people onboard too because it can be a jumping on point.

Or I suppose they can do something entirely different.

 

[Mudd]

Anyway, I suppose you could go big with the Kelvin timeline crew. But at this point, to spend $150, $175, $200 million dollars to intentionally end something would be a little weird to me.

Who says they would be ending it?

 

[fireproof78]

Putting money in to Kelvin sounds like a great move.

 

[Greg Cox]

The technology has been outlawed since 1996, as per DS9. So no immortals.

Maybe in the Prime Universe, but do we know if that's the case in the Kelvin timeline? Maybe the ban got repealed at some point in the Kelvin timeline.

What's said in a DS9 ep doesn't necessarily apply to the Kelvin movies.

 

[Isaac Lawrence]

Who says they would be ending it?

I'm talking about Chris Pine and that group. How many more movies are you going to do with that group?

I see some people say do one more movie to give them closure. Yeah, you could do that, but you're going to spend money on a movie to end something, because that's what you would be doing: making a movie to send them off. And it's one thing to do that when it's something massive, but if it's something mid to low-level, then why am I spending more money on this? I can take that same money and start building something new instead of closing something out.

Or I suppose you could spend money to close something out. And then spend some more money to start something new. You could do that if you don't mind spending a lot of money. And it's fun spending other people's money.

Also, yes, as I said, you could continue the Kelvin timeline with a new crew or whatever. But you have Paramount+ now and a whole slate of shows there. So wouldn't the smart money be to do movies that support what you're also doing on your streaming service? Or vice-versa, I guess: do shows that support the movies.

The Mickey Mouse company is doing that with their super-heroes and are making money hand over fist. So I would think Paramount and ViacomCBS would want to try and do something similar with their space explorers and see if they can make money hand over fist too. So make shows that support the movies. Don't keep them separate.

So yeah, you can continue the Kelvin timeline, but to what end? And I love the Kelvin timeline. I think JJ Trek is the bestest (not Beyond though).

But that was then and now is now. And the game is played different now.

 

[Mudd]

I'm talking about Chris Pine and that group. How many more movies are you going to do with that group?.

Based on history there's no way to say.

This movie being some kind of swan song is entirely supposition, then.

 

[Isaac Lawrence]

Based on history there's no way to say.

This movie being some kind of swan song is entirely supposition, then.

I was just going on what I see as a general consensus. In that, I don't see anyone saying that they should do three or four, or five more movies with this group. No, most people I see say do one more movie with them, or just move on. And I of course say just move on.

The last movie barely made money, or broke even, or lost a little bit, or whatever the case may be. But to do another movie with these same people, who did extremely well for Star Trek the first two times (but only fairly well in general), and not so great the third time... and now seven years later to come back to them?

I suppose you could do that, but I really wouldn't (actually I wouldn't at all). No, that time I think is past and it's time to do other things.

Also, again, I think the Kelvin timeline is great and was a brilliant and very Star Trek-y idea. And for the life of me I still don't know why they didn't put Discovery in the Kelvin timeline, and continue the Kelvin timeline on TV and in the movies, and put the Prime timeline to bed. That seemed like that would have been a no-brainer of an idea, but whatever.

They could still do that too, I guess. End the Prime timeline with Discovery and just continue the Kelvin timeline on TV and in the movies. And I would actually prefer that, but I seriously doubt they would do that.

Whatever they do though, pick one or the other. Don't do both. And if the 2023 movie is Kelvin timeline, then okay, stay with that and kill everything else on Paramount+ and switch it all over to the Kelvin timeline.

Just give me structure, that's all I ask for...

 

[fireproof78]

I'm talking about Chris Pine and that group. How many more movies are you going to do with that group?

As many as possible. Prefer one more and set up for new crew.

 

[saddestmoon]

Moar Kelvin Trek?

Yes please!

K?

Thx!

 

[Isaac Lawrence]

As many as possible. Prefer one more and set up for new crew.

Okay, do a passing of the torch movie if you want.

That's kind of a waste of a movie to me, unless you do something like pass the torch in the first 20 minutes and then get on with it..

No, I say wrap Chris Pine and that crew's story up in a novel. Make it official canon or whatever. And for the people who really care about how their story ends, then that's where they can find it.

But of course that's just me. And I liked that Kirk and Spock and the rest. But do I care how their story ends? Not even a little.

Star Trek has a bad history of beating things into the ground. One of the great things about history though is that you hopefully learn from mistakes in the past and don't repeat them. You saw waining interest in the last movie. Okay, that's a good warning sign to probably stop, to quit while you're ahead. Because we've seen this happen in the past time and time again. So let's not do it... again.

Of course, there's a very good reason why the people at Paramount stopped making them, because they saw what was happening.

For a new movie in the Kelvin timeline though, treat it like The Next Generation, just jump ahead 80 years, or 100 years, or 200 years, however many you want.

That is something that did work in the past. Just, y'know, do it good this time, and don't beat it into the ground. (And yes, that's my obligatory Next Generation dig for the day.)

If they do go back to the Kelvin timeline then I'd want see someone new. Do a Kelvin timeline movie and make Rahul Kohli the captain. He would be more interesting to me than seeing another Chris Pine Star Trek movie.

Or I liked Tenet, it's my favorite Christoper Nolan movie...

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...so John David Washington might make for an interesting captain. He can do stoic, and he do cool like Sisko.

Yeah, they already did The Original Series thing with the first three movies, so do a Deep Space Nine thing with the next batch. And have John David Washington be the Benjamin Sisko of the Kelvin timeline. That would be really cool, I think. Have Kirk and the crew travel to Sisko's Deep Space station and pass the Kelvin timeline torch there. And do it in the first 20 minutes so we can get on with it.

EDIT:
(Just to add the other two Tenet trailers.)

 

[fireproof78]

Kelvin is nowhere near beaten in to the ground. And doing Kelvin Next Generation 80 years forward because TNG is BS. Too safe.

 

[Isaac Lawrence]

Kelvin is nowhere near beaten in to the ground. And doing Kelvin Next Generation 80 years forward because TNG is BS. Too safe.

Oh, no, I think the Kelvin timeline is great.

Again, I wish that they would end the Prime timeline and just do the Kelvin timeline from now on. And I wished that since 2009. And even though I didn't really care for Beyond, I still wish that they would drop the Prime timeline and just do the Kelvin timeline. The only thing that I like in the Prime timeline is The Original Series and Discovery, and Sisko and Janeway. So that's why I have no problem throwing it all away.

But no, I think the Kelvin timeline is fine. Just the current group I think is done. I feel it's time to do something else, and with someone else, in the Kelvin timeline. And also, no, I don't want to see a Kelvin timeline version of The Next Generation unless it's something totally different.

Picard was French with an English accent (yeah, yeah, they came up with a reason, but still... ), so that's why I say just do Rahul Kohli. He's British and has an English accent. So if they want to do a Kelvin timeline version of The Next Generation, then have a captain who would make sense if he has an English accent.

No, obviously I love my idea of John David Washington as a Kelvin timeline Benjamin Sisko. So if they were to do another alternate universe take on something, then that would be my first, and second through 39th pick.

If they want to do something totally new though, then just do that in the Prime timeline set after Discovery. Or again, kill the Prime timeline and just do everything in the Kelvin timeline from now on.

EDIT:
Or, a third timeline is fine by me too.

But I'd want Star Trek as hard science fiction if they were to do a third timeline.

 

[fireproof78]

Oh, no, I think the Kelvin timeline is great.

Again, I wish that they would end the Prime timeline and just do the Kelvin timeline from now on. And I wished that since 2009. And even though I didn't really care for Beyond, I still wish that they would drop the Prime timeline and just do the Kelvin timeline. The only thing that I like in the Prime timeline is The Original Series and Discovery, and Sisko and Janeway. So that's why I have no problem throwing it all away.

But no, I think the Kelvin timeline is fine. Just the current group I think is done. I feel it's time to do something else, and with someone else, in the Kelvin timeline. And also, no, I don't want to see a Kelvin timeline version of The Next Generation unless it's something totally different.

Picard was French with an English accent (yeah, yeah, they came up with a reason, but still... ), so that's why I say just do Rahul Kohli. He's British and has an English accent. So if they want to do a Kelvin timeline version of The Next Generation, then have a captain who would make sense if he has an English accent.

No, obviously I love my idea of John David Washington as a Kelvin timeline Benjamin Sisko. So if they were to do another alternate universe take on something, then that would be my first, and second through 39th pick.

If they want to do something totally new though, then just do that in the Prime timeline set after Discovery. Or again, kill the Prime timeline and just do everything in the Kelvin timeline from now on.

EDIT:
Or, a third timeline is fine by me too.

But I'd want Star Trek as hard science fiction if they were to do a third timeline.

My larger point is this-don't replicate what was done with the Prime Timeline. Instead, I think staying near to the Kirk era and exploring from Yorktown base the different possibilities would be more intriguing rather than just jumping ahead to the future, and/or attempting to involve a Picard or a Sisko character. One of the things the Kelvin films have struggled a bit to do is to really go out and forge a new path, with new characters to really build up and expand this part of the timeline.

 

[Isaac Lawrence]

My larger point is this-don't replicate what was done with the Prime Timeline. Instead, I think staying near to the Kirk era and exploring from Yorktown base the different possibilities would be more intriguing rather than just jumping ahead to the future, and/or attempting to involve a Picard or a Sisko character. One of the things the Kelvin films have struggled a bit to do is to really go out and forge a new path, with new characters to really build up and expand this part of the timeline.

Well, yeah, they struggled a bit to forge a new path because I don't believe that was ever the intention of the Kelvin timeline.

It's intention was a reinterpretation of Kirk and Spock. That was the whole point. And they did it very well.

Also, I don't imagine they want to do another alternate universe take on the Prime timeline. Because that's a very easy thing to do, and if they wanted to do that they could have done that years ago. Just the same, if that's something that they would want to do, then I say do Sisko.

But no, I'm of course all about "the new." Do something new. That's what I truly want. But while you're doing something new, pick one timeline or universe to do it in. Pick one and kill the other one. Go with Kelvin? Okay, kill Prime then...

If they do two or three cool things in a new Kelvin movie that I like, then do two or three TV shows about that. And kill all of that other stuff. This is what I'm saying.

So sure, forge ahead and do new stuff by all means. That's what Star Trek should always do, I think. And spin it off into some TV shows and kill all of that other stuff that isn't forging ahead and doing new stuff.

Because I've had a change of heart. I was all for the "many flavors of Star Trek" that Alex Kurtzman and company was talking about. That sounded great and made a lot of sense... in theory. Now that I see it in practice, it's like, "Whoa, what is this?"

Still do the many flavors, just put it all together though. Don't have many different flavors in many different places and times. No, do many different flavors in one place and move forward like that. That's the smarter approach, I think.

Boldly go... forward... and together.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, yeah, they struggled a bit to forge a new path because I don't believe that was ever the intention of the Kelvin timeline.

It's intention was a reinterpretation of Kirk and Spock. That was the whole point. And they did it very well.

Also, I don't imagine they want to do another alternate universe take on the Prime timeline. Because that's a very easy thing to do, and if they wanted to do that they could have done that years ago. Just the same, if that's something that they would want to do, then I say do Sisko.

But no, I'm of course all about "the new." Do something new. That's what I truly want. But while you're doing something new, pick one timeline or universe to do it in. Pick one and kill the other one. Go with Kelvin? Okay, kill Prime then...

If they do two or three cool things in a new Kelvin movie that I like, then do two or three TV shows about that. And kill all of that other stuff. This is what I'm saying.

So sure, forge ahead and do new stuff by all means. That's what Star Trek should always do, I think. And spin it off into some TV shows and kill all of that other stuff that isn't forging ahead and doing new stuff.

Because I've had a change of heart. I was all for the "many flavors of Star Trek" that Alex Kurtzman and company was talking about. That sounded great and made a lot of sense... in theory. Now that I see it in practice, it's like, "Whoa, what is this?"

Still do the many flavors, just put it all together though. Don't have many different flavors in many different places and times. No, do many different flavors in one place and move forward like that. That's the smarter approach, I think.

Boldly go... forward... and together.

Yeah, that's where I disagree. Do it all, and have fun it. Kelvin, Prime, and a good variety of each. Don't need to kill anything. If something works, great and go forward. If not, leave it aside until a more opportune moment. Kelvin, in my opinion, is rather untapped, and probably will remain so for a bit until they gauge interest after SNW releases and a sense of how they want to go.

I'm all for the many flavors of Star Trek. I don't want it all together.

 

[Isaac Lawrence]

Yeah, that's where I disagree. Do it all, and have fun it. Kelvin, Prime, and a good variety of each. Don't need to kill anything. If something works, great and go forward. If not, leave it aside until a more opportune moment. Kelvin, in my opinion, is rather untapped, and probably will remain so for a bit until they gauge interest after SNW releases and a sense of how they want to go.

I'm all for the many flavors of Star Trek. I don't want it all together.

Well, first, you only have so much money. So trying to be everything to everyone is fiscally very difficult, and rarely successful. Beyond that though, I of course say don't look back, keep moving forward.

Discovery is the only thing in Star Trek currently moving forward. Everything else is filling in the blanks of what happened in the past. And it's fine to do one (maybe two) things like that, but to do everything like that is ridiculous... I think.

It's the equivalent of doing The Next Generation, and then every series after it was something set before The Original Series. It would be like, "What in the hell are you guys doing?"

Star Trek did go forward with Discovery, now with everything else though they've stopped. And that's one way to do things, but... "eh." Of course, doing new and going forward is hard, and not without risk. So it's totally understandable what they're doing. They're playing it safe.

They're following the prequel trend. Amazon is doing it with Lord of the Rings. HBO is doing it with Game of Thrones. Star Wars is doing it with every single thing that they're doing. They don't have anything planned for what comes next after the last movie. Of course, the Star Wars story really ended back in '83. That was the story, because how do you top Darth Vader. The only ones not doing the prequel trend is Marvel, and they're killing everyone. Of course, until they did do the prequel trend with their last movie and got bit hard with a 67% drop. I suspect they won't do that again, because that totally goes against their brand.

The irony that Discovery started as a prequel is not lost on me either. But to their credit they wised up.

Anyway, hopefully with Emma Watts and the movies they're not afraid to move Star Trek forward again. And I think that will happen, because I think she is bold, and I think she wants to put her stamp on things. And hopefully that boldness trickles down to the TV guys. Get their courage up again...

What's that saying," Scared money don't make none." So don't be scared, be bold. Go boldly. Don't make Star Trek into a nostalgia brand, be a bold brand.

 

[Mudd]

It doesn't make any difference when a show's set, since Trek's future just endlessly repeats variations on a theme. Look, our ships have engines that come off now! We're still in Starfleet using transporters and calling each other by Naval ranks!

All that matters is whether the stories are good. STD fails there. Maybe one of the new shows will be better.