Vulcan's Forge - ugh? and spoilers

[OmahaStar]

I'm nearly halfway through this book, and not sure if there's any reason to continue.

My main gripe is that the readers for whatever reason must be reminded that Spock and other characters were in a desert as children.

I think after the first couple thousand times the writers gave some variation on "As Spock grew up in the desert, he knew how to..." or "And since the entire team was descended from desert-dwelling peoples, they were able to..."

Once or twice, fine. A handful of times, I can take. But it's just about every other paragraph here, and my eyes simply can't roll any more. They're locked up now.

Do the writers ever tone it down, or do they continue this nonsense through the end of the book?

And, for that matter, do they pull the same "trick" for the rest of their Vulcan books?

 

[LutherSloan]

Yeah, I'm not particularly fond of scenes on Vulcan myself, especially when the character is just wandering in the desert. I had trouble with that book, although I probably read it 10 years ago.

 

[Smiley]

I remember that the relationships of Spock to his old friend and his crew are the main reason that I liked the book. If you can't get past the desert reminders, then don't torture yourself. Put down Vulcan's Forge and pick up one of the other 600 Trek books or 1,000,000+ other non-Trek books out there.

 

[Biggshow]

While I have overall liked the Vulcan's Forge and Vulcan's Soul books, the authors do tend to repeat themselves. Often. Wait til you get to the multiple references to Spock being in the throes of pon farr. Or is that the sequel? Editors?

 

[Possum]

I think that's Vulcan's Heart. I found it at a Salvation Army (I find it rare to find any Star Trek books used for some reason) and got it. I enjoyed it but every so often I had to remind myself I was reading a Pocket Book and not a long fanfic. That was kind of bizarre, it was like reading some of the first numbered books which were understandably actually written by fan fic authors.

 

[Rackon]

I'm rereading Vulcan's Forge right now.

If you can't tune that kind of noise out - put it down. But I think you should stick with the Vulcan stuff just to discover more about young Spock and some possible reasons why he found Star Fleet attractive. Just for fun.

Repetition aside, it's one of the better books about Spock IMO. I've always liked the idea that he found a human friend before he met Kirk and McCoy. And I was tickled by Spock's interior monologues, especially where he talks back to Sarek. I also tend to like Romulan story lines too, so this novel contains multiple elements that I find attractive.

Frankly, I don't think Trek novels in general are exceptionally well written, although some are much better than others, and they've often been subjected to rewrites and editing. If I'm looking for great literature, I'm probably going to pick up something besides a ST book. OTOH, I do love stories about anything Vulcan, and Spock especially, so I ignore the repetition and just enjoy it as light entertainment. I have a soft spot for Spock books, including things like Ishmael, that may well curl other fans toes. Vulcan's Heart was a little much in places, but I can usually skim over the parts that make me cringe.

 

[seigezunt]

I listened to Vulcan's Forge on audio and enjoyed it. Vulcan's Heart was awful, though. I listened to the first book of the Vulcan's Soul trilogy, and just haven't built up the desire to hear the rest. I had trouble with Chekov and Uhura being alive and in Starfleet when the book is set (post-Dominion, but not post-Nemesis?)

 

[Rackon]

Which books do you think are the best Vulcan and/or Spock books? Your favorites?

Everyone raves about Crucible: Spock, but I liked the McCoy one a bit better.

For elegant adventure writing, I head for O'Brien's Aubrey & Maturin series.

 

[seigezunt]

Which books do you think are the best Vulcan and/or Spock books? Your favorites?

Everyone raves about Crucible: Spock, but I liked the McCoy one a bit better.

For elegant adventure writing, I head for O'Brien's Aubrey & Maturin series.

I also found the second Crucible book wanting. But the first was was just so fantastic, it had a lot to follow. Spock's world is a favorite, and the new Troublesome Minds is a great story with a lot of Spock in it. I also enjoyed Vulcan's Glory a lot. The characterization of Spock in The Entropy Effect was also quite good.

 

[Rackon]

Thanks for the suggestions!

I've read Spock's World, Sarek, Vulcan's Glory, Ishmael, Vulcan's Forge, Vulcan's Heart, Mind Meld, Crucible: Spock. I quite like dthe novel with a young Saavik - The Pandora Principle. Spock in loco parentis was wonderful. I have Entropy Effect somewhere and have misplaced it, so that one will probably be next, and I intend to buy Troublesome Minds.

I wish someone would write some Vulcan novels, pre-Enterprise.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I wish someone would write some Vulcan novels, pre-Enterprise.

Hmmm, maybe V'Lar's story. That would be interesting. Or Syrran, how he discovers Surak's katra and comes to oppose the rise of the reactionary High Command.

 

[JD]

Or you could do both in one book.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I'm nearly halfway through this book, and not sure if there's any reason to continue.

I liked Vulcan's Forge (to the point where I really wanted to see some use of the Intrepid-II in anything else), but I also remember that it was a slow-going read. I don't recall (as it's been twelve years) your specific issues with the narrative. The only thing that really bugged me was that there was no mention of Sybok, who should have been at least a shadow overhanging some of the Vulcan sequences with Spock growing up. (According to Ordover at the time, Paramount wouldn't allow the use of Sybok. Same with Vornholt's Mind Meld.)

And, for that matter, do they pull the same "trick" for the rest of their Vulcan books?

You'll probably find Vulcan's Heart easier going.

 

[Paris]

And, for that matter, do they pull the same "trick" for the rest of their Vulcan books?

Vulcan's Forge is the most tedious of the series. Vulcan's Heart was a much better read, and the three Vulcan's Soul books are better than Vulcan's Heart (IMO). The only thing I had a problem with was the seeming immortality of Kirk's original crew. The three V-Soul books take place post-Dominion War in 2377, and features Chekov and Uhura alive and well and still active members of Starfleet as Admirals. Chekov was 132 (assuming, since this is the "prime universe", that he was born in 2245 like memory beta says and not 2241 like in the new movie) and Uhura was 138 ! Ridiculous if you ask me...

 

[seigezunt]

And, for that matter, do they pull the same "trick" for the rest of their Vulcan books?

Vulcan's Forge is the most tedious of the series. Vulcan's Heart was a much better read, and the three Vulcan's Soul books are better than Vulcan's Heart (IMO). The only thing I had a problem with was the seeming immortality of Kirk's original crew. The three V-Soul books take place post-Dominion War in 2377, and features Chekov and Uhura alive and well and still active members of Starfleet as Admirals. Chekov was 132 (assuming, since this is the "prime universe", that he was born in 2245 like memory beta says and not 2241 like in the new movie) and Uhura was 138 ! Ridiculous if you ask me...

I just wonder about the authors' decision to do that. What was the discussion like? Or was it forced by Pocket?

 

[Christopher]

(Responding to Paris) Well, McCoy was 137 in "Encounter at Farpoint," so it's hardly ridiculous. Clearly longevity has increased by the 24th century (and if anything, ST's predictions about how much longevity will increase by then are very, very conservative).

Still, it would be nice to reveal that somebody other than Kirk has passed on by the TNG or post-TNG era. At this point, though, Sulu's the only one who hasn't explicitly been shown to be alive in the 2370s, and even that was hinted at in Day of Honor: Armageddon Sky.

 

[seigezunt]

(Responding to Paris) Well, McCoy was 137 in "Encounter at Farpoint," so it's hardly ridiculous. Clearly longevity has increased by the 24th century (and if anything, ST's predictions about how much longevity will increase by then are very, very conservative).

But McCoy was a very old man in Farpoint. Chekov at least seems pretty active (note, I just read the first book), much more so, and more of a stretch for me.

 

[Paris]

(Responding to Paris) Well, McCoy was 137 in "Encounter at Farpoint," so it's hardly ridiculous. Clearly longevity has increased by the 24th century (and if anything, ST's predictions about how much longevity will increase by then are very, very conservative).

Still, it would be nice to reveal that somebody other than Kirk has passed on by the TNG or post-TNG era. At this point, though, Sulu's the only one who hasn't explicitly been shown to be alive in the 2370s, and even that was hinted at in Day of Honor: Armageddon Sky.

But McCoy had retired from the Fleet in 2353 (supposedly). What I find ridiculous isn't people living into their 130's and beyond; what I find ridiculous is the fact that they were still active in Fleet operations at this point. Spock and the time displaced Scotty aren't hard to believe (at least in the context of trek), but Chekov and Uhura kind of were...

If officers in their 130's are still viable in the 2370's, why wasn't Kirk going to stay in the fleet beyond the age of 60 in the 2290's? Medical knowledge, even in the trek-inspired future, doesn't make leaps like that in a 80 year span. It implies that people in the 2290's only lived as long as people today.

 

[William Leisner]

Medical knowledge, even in the trek-inspired future, doesn't make leaps like that in a 80 year span.

What are you talking about? In the Trek-verse, leaps like that happen every week.

Seeing people being active right up to the top end of their expected lifespan may seem strange to us in 2009, yes. But a hundred years ago, it would have been just as bizarre to think of spending the last twenty years of your life in a convalescent home, taking a dozen pills twice a day just so you could get up and do nothing the next day. Heaven only knows what the general perception of the elderly will be in the 23rd or 24th centuries.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

At this point, though, Sulu's the only one who hasn't explicitly been shown to be alive in the 2370s, and even that was hinted at in Day of Honor: Armageddon Sky.

Serpents Among the Ruins hints that Sulu died sometime before the Tomed Incident.

Burning Dreams shows Sulu alive as late as the 2330s.