Vulcan's Forge - ugh? and spoilers

[Paris]

Medical knowledge, even in the trek-inspired future, doesn't make leaps like that in a 80 year span.

What are you talking about? In the Trek-verse, leaps like that happen every week.

Seeing people being active right up to the top end of their expected lifespan may seem strange to us in 2009, yes. But a hundred years ago, it would have been just as bizarre to think of spending the last twenty years of your life in a convalescent home, taking a dozen pills twice a day just so you could get up and do nothing the next day. Heaven only knows what the general perception of the elderly will be in the 23rd or 24th centuries.

Are you saying that if you were the head of SI you would have no problem sending someone who looks...ahem...as healthy as the way McCoy did in Encounter at Farpoint, on a mission into enemy territory like he was some kind of commando ? Chekov was roughly the same age in the V-Soul trilogy as McCoy was in EaF. Uhura's reasoning behind getting Chekov was that he was the only command officer in Starfleet who had encountered them, but he still didn't know anything of any relevance. Having him in contact with Saavik's ship wouldn't have been a bad idea, but going on the actual mission to meet the Watraii seems ludacrous to me.

I find it hard to believe that with all of SI within Uhura's grasp, that the best person for a massively important mission into enemy territory, was a man with next to no knowledge about said enemy who also happened to be 132 . Remember...it says that Chekov had met a Watraii over a comm channel for a few minutes or so several years prior to the setting of the story. He had never had any real or relevant experience with them.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I find it hard to believe that with all of SI within Uhura's grasp, that the best person for a massively important mission into enemy territory, was a man with next to no knowledge about said enemy who also happened to be 132 . Remember...it says that Chekov had met a Watraii over a comm channel for a minute or so several years prior to the setting of the story. He had never had any real and relevant experience with them

Yes, that was what I found odd. I have no problems with the age, because, as others have pointed out upthread, Star Trek is probably conservative when it comes to lifespans in the 24th century. I do find it slightly vexing that both Chekov and Uhura are still active in Starfleet, again not due to their age but due to the fact that if they've lived this long why haven't they moved on, settled down, changed their circumstances? Uhura being head of SI might make it difficult for her to quit (a plot point in "Catalyst of Sorrows"), but doesn't Chekov have a life outside of Starfleet? Anyway, yes, it seemed odd to send such an elderly officer on a mission of this magnitude when he had nothing further to contribute. I really liked the "Vulcan's Soul" books, but Chekov seemed rather pointless throughout. Why did he need to be in the story? He contributed nothing.

Spoiler: Fun with the Watraii!

Even his rescue was pointless- they already had to go to Watraii Homeworld for the coronet.

 

[Paris]

Anyway, yes, it seemed odd to send such an elderly officer on a mission of this magnitude when he had nothing further to contribute. I really liked the "Vulcan's Soul" books, but Chekov seemed rather pointless throughout. Why did he need to be in the story? He contributed nothing.

Agreed. Why Chekov? If they wanted to keep these V-Soul books in line with the other two Vulcan books (Forge & Heart) why not use someone like Picard aboard the Stargazer or, even better, have the person with the experience be Saavik. If she wasn't a Captain at the time, then fine; she could have been the XO or something. Vulcan's over 100 are nothing out the ordinary. Chekov seemed totally out of place.

Having said all this, I just want to be on record saying that I actually really liked these books. The depiction of the Sundering and Vulcan society around Surak's time, was great. Any more books by Sherman & Shwartz, would be most welcome .

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Anyway, yes, it seemed odd to send such an elderly officer on a mission of this magnitude when he had nothing further to contribute. I really liked the "Vulcan's Soul" books, but Chekov seemed rather pointless throughout. Why did he need to be in the story? He contributed nothing.

Agreed. Why chekov? If they wanted to keep these V-Soul books in line with the other two Vulcan books (Forge & Heart) why not use someone like Picard aboard the Stargazer or, even better, have the person with the experience be Saavik. If she wasn't a Captain at the time, then fine; she could have been the XO or something. Chekov seemed totally out of place.

Having said all this, I just want to be on record saying that I actually really liked these books in general. The depiction of the Sundering and Vulcan society around Surak's time, was great. Any more books by Sherman & Shwartz, would be most welcome .

Agreed. Sherman and Shwartz are to Vulcans and Romulans what KRAD is to Klingons. Also, so many other books have sprung off from and reference "Vulcan's Heart" and "Vulcan's Soul" that it's obvious their portrayal of Vulcanoid cultures has massive amount of mileage.

 

[William Leisner]

Medical knowledge, even in the trek-inspired future, doesn't make leaps like that in a 80 year span.

What are you talking about? In the Trek-verse, leaps like that happen every week.

Seeing people being active right up to the top end of their expected lifespan may seem strange to us in 2009, yes. But a hundred years ago, it would have been just as bizarre to think of spending the last twenty years of your life in a convalescent home, taking a dozen pills twice a day just so you could get up and do nothing the next day. Heaven only knows what the general perception of the elderly will be in the 23rd or 24th centuries.

Are you saying that if you were the head of SI you would have no problem sending someone who looks...ahem...as healthy as the way McCoy did in Encounter at Farpoint, on a mission into enemy territory like he was some kind of commando ?

Uh... no. I'm saying what I said. Go ahead, reread the words in the quote box right above, and you'll clearly see I was merely responding, in general terms, to your "80 year span" comment, and never once broached the idea of sending McCoy on commando missions. I'm not sure why this needs to be explained.

 

[Paris]

What are you talking about? In the Trek-verse, leaps like that happen every week.

Seeing people being active right up to the top end of their expected lifespan may seem strange to us in 2009, yes. But a hundred years ago, it would have been just as bizarre to think of spending the last twenty years of your life in a convalescent home, taking a dozen pills twice a day just so you could get up and do nothing the next day. Heaven only knows what the general perception of the elderly will be in the 23rd or 24th centuries.

Are you saying that if you were the head of SI you would have no problem sending someone who looks...ahem...as healthy as the way McCoy did in Encounter at Farpoint, on a mission into enemy territory like he was some kind of commando ?

Uh... no. I'm saying what I said. Go ahead, reread the words in the quote box right above, and you'll clearly see I was merely responding, in general terms, to your "80 year span" comment, and never once broached the idea of sending McCoy on commando missions. I'm not sure why this needs to be explained.

Well, Mr. Leisner...I apologize for my misunderstanding. Do you think using Chekov, at his advanced age, for the mission was the best way to go? I never thought Chekov living to 132 was a problem, just using him on the mission. When I said, "...Medical knowledge, even in the trek-inspired future, doesn't make leaps like that in a 80 year span," what I was referring to was medical knowledge that would allow a 132 year old man to be a viable officer in the fleet of the 2370's. I could have been more clear, I suppose...

 

[Christopher]

^Actually, medical and other scientific knowledge often does make enormous leaps in a short amount of time, when new potentials are discovered. Eighty years ago, there were no computers; now they've totally revolutionized the world. Today, we're on the cusp of new breakthroughs in genetics that will do for life sciences what the microchip did for electronics. Eighty years from now, we could have virtual immortality.

If you'd phrased your comment more narrowly, saying that the amount of progress shown in the Trek universe from the 2280s to the 2360s doesn't seem to suggest any revolutionary advances in geriatrics in that time, then that would be a valid statement. But to say that medicine or science can never make enormous leaps forward in less than 80 years is entirely wrong. If anything, the most important advances tend to take far less time than that.

 

[Paris]

I get it. I worded it poorly. Thanks for pointing it out guys, i'll be more careful in the future. If you guys still didn't know what I was getting at, what I was talking about was the ridiculousness of having a 132 human, who even in the medically advanced 24th century was reeeeaaallllllyyyyy old, take part in a mission when it seemed like he wasn't needed at all. That's all I was going for . Thoughts on this?

 

[GHS]

I would say it's about as ridiculous as Star Trek gets

 

[Newspaper Taxi]

Thanks for the suggestions!

I wish someone would write some Vulcan novels, pre-Enterprise.

There was the episode of Enterprise, "Carbon Creek", that took place in the mid 20th century.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Thanks for the suggestions!

I wish someone would write some Vulcan novels, pre-Enterprise.

There was the episode of Enterprise, "Carbon Creek", that took place in the mid 20th century.

And a wonderful episode it was, which makes me even more eager for pre-Enterprise Vulcan fiction!

 

[Rackon]

Thanks for the suggestions!

I wish someone would write some Vulcan novels, pre-Enterprise.

There was the episode of Enterprise, "Carbon Creek", that took place in the mid 20th century.

And a wonderful episode it was, which makes me even more eager for pre-Enterprise Vulcan fiction!

Exactly! That's what I long for. I loved Carbon Creek.

 

[William Leisner]

^ Have you read Strangers from the Sky? It's way pre-Enterprise, in that it takes place prior to the series, and was written prior to the creation of the series (and before a lot of details of Trek's 21st century had been established on screen).

 

[seigezunt]

^ Have you read Strangers from the Sky? It's way pre-Enterprise, in that it takes place prior to the series, and was written prior to the creation of the series (and before a lot of details of Trek's 21st century had been established on screen).

I love that book.

 

[Bobatiel]

I just want to be on record saying that I actually really liked these books. The depiction of the Sundering and Vulcan society around Surak's time, was great. Any more books by Sherman & Shwartz, would be most welcome .

Agreed.

All the Shwartz & Sherman Vulcan books are among my favourites. Hope we get more.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I just want to be on record saying that I actually really liked these books. The depiction of the Sundering and Vulcan society around Surak's time, was great. Any more books by Sherman & Shwartz, would be most welcome .

Agreed.

All the Shwartz & Sherman Vulcan books are among my favourites. Hope we get more.

Following up on Charvanek and Saavik post-Romulus and post-Spock, perhaps? That would seem to be the next step, given how the "Vulcan's Noun" series has progressed up the timeline.

 

[Paris]

I just want to be on record saying that I actually really liked these books. The depiction of the Sundering and Vulcan society around Surak's time, was great. Any more books by Sherman & Shwartz, would be most welcome .

Agreed.

All the Shwartz & Sherman Vulcan books are among my favourites. Hope we get more.

Following up on Charvanek and Saavik post-Romulus and post-Spock, perhaps? That would seem to be the next step, given how the "Vulcan's Noun" series has progressed up the timeline.

Agreed. Spock is gone for good (at least from that universe), and so it seems is Romulus/Remus; What do the Watraii think of that, I wonder ? Unfortunately, as the books are only up to 2381 at this point, we'll probably have to wait a few more years to find out how Saavik & Charvanek take the news .

 

[Bobatiel]

I'd love to see what Sherman & Shwartz would do with the the Abramsverse Vulcans.