Voyager season 7

[cosmic mouse]

I guess now you understand why I don't like ENDGAME. Janeway was so much not herself!

Yep, I agree completely... there did seem to be (as I mentioned previously) a gradual "decline" in Janeway's character (decline isn't really the correct work, but it's all I can come up with right now) that leads up to her aberrant behavior in the finale. It is really only Admiral Janeway that I feel this way about though (in Endgame that is).... and some of the things she says to her younger self are befuddling- almost as if she is a different person completely and not just an aged Janeway. Maybe the 26 years between Renaissance Man and the opening shot in Endgame did a number on her psyche? It would appear so with her standing at Chak's grave lamenting the events that occurred while still in the DQ.

In contrast to you, I don't like Neelix's departure. Getting rid of a main character a few eps before the end is a dumb idea for me. Throwing Kes out sucked, I think but that was at least relatively early in the show.

...but do you not think the reason that Neelix left was completely logical? Maybe the writers themselves had a reason for writing this in (such as a contract issue with the actor or his unavailability, etc.). Anyhow, regardless of the reason in reality imho the reason per the show was fine. If I was stuck on a wayward ship populated with alien species for 7 years with no contact with another human, then I would probably jump at the chance to spend time with one when they finally crossed my path. Add to that the fact that he clearly bonded with Dexa and Brax and it's a no-brainer decision on Neelix's part. Plus, this close to the finale the audience doesn't really suffer (well,most of them anyway ). Kes's departure was completely different imo, both in tone and the fact that the series was still in its younger stages and that obviously did cause some great distress for a larger number of viewers at the time. That decision by TPTB seemed to be fueled almost entirely by issues occurring off-set though, which has a further confounding effect on the "artwork" that we see on screen as the audience.

Oh, and give me at least 6 months to a year before I rewatch the entire series... I need to refocus for a little while. I've loved discussing this series with you though, TE, since you are so passionate about it.

 

[Danny99]

Season 7 simply ran out of time to flesh out some of its ideas (Seven becoming more human, her relationship with Chakotay, Tuvok's illness etc.). There was a few good episodes that could have been done in earlier seasons and helped to evolve the characters by the time we got to Endgame.

Endgame's problem was future Janeway and all the scenes that took place in the future. Two of Voyager's best episodes were Scorpion and Dark Frontier, both Borg stories where Voyager only escaped by the skin of their teeth. There was really gravitas. Here, future Janeway shows up and gives them so many upgrades that there is no tension in getting them home. If the stuff I mentioned above regarding Seven, Chakotay and Tuvok had been fleshed out earlier in the season, it would have left more room to build some tension. Have the crew come up with their own plan to get through the hub or perhaps, have Janeway, who has been broken by decisions she has made (as she was in Night, the Season 5 premiere) make the ultimate sacrifice to get her crew home, her driving force for the entire series.

Voyager suffered from not getting the DS9 treatment, to put it simply. DS9's final season had several storylines building toward the finale. Endgame feels like it took a bunch of sticky notes in the writer's room and tossed them into a script.

 

[Mareika]

Cosmic mouse and Danny99 You both summed it up for me. Thank you.
Too bad you`ve finished watching Voyager, cosmic mouse . I`ll miss your reports. I was looking every day for your posts. Glad you didn`t dislike 7/C in general. I like it.

 

[Refuge]

Cosmic mouse and Danny99 You both summed it up for me. Thank you.
Too bad you`ve finished watching Voyager, cosmic mouse . I`ll miss your reports. I was looking every day for your posts. Glad you didn`t dislike 7/C in general. I like it.

Yes, it's been good reading through your journey, Cosmic Mouse

 

[cosmic mouse]

Thanks for the nice comments you guys...

Season 7 simply ran out of time to flesh out some of its ideas (Seven becoming more human, her relationship with Chakotay, Tuvok's illness etc.). There was a few good episodes that could have been done in earlier seasons and helped to evolve the characters by the time we got to Endgame.

Endgame's problem was future Janeway and all the scenes that took place in the future. Two of Voyager's best episodes were Scorpion and Dark Frontier, both Borg stories where Voyager only escaped by the skin of their teeth. There was really gravitas. Here, future Janeway shows up and gives them so many upgrades that there is no tension in getting them home. If the stuff I mentioned above regarding Seven, Chakotay and Tuvok had been fleshed out earlier in the season, it would have left more room to build some tension. Have the crew come up with their own plan to get through the hub or perhaps, have Janeway, who has been broken by decisions she has made (as she was in Night, the Season 5 premiere) make the ultimate sacrifice to get her crew home, her driving force for the entire series.

Voyager suffered from not getting the DS9 treatment, to put it simply. DS9's final season had several storylines building toward the finale. Endgame feels like it took a bunch of sticky notes in the writer's room and tossed them into a script.

I agree on all counts, Danny99... I haven't yet seen DS9, but it's on the agenda (need to watch TNG first though). But I have heard this stated before by a few people here. Particularly with regard to the development of certain characters and their relationships to each other I found season 7 lacking. And I most certainly concur with your statement regarding the future Janeway and future events in Endgame. Those were by far the weakest points of that ep and some of the weakest points of s7 in general for me (as I mentioned before the role that Janeway plays in the final season could have been improved upon tremendously imo).
Objectively, I agree with most who had some criticism for the writing in this series overall. It was one of the weakest factors of Voyager as a whole, which isn’t to say that are not great moments and great episodes (subjectively, I pretty much loved every minute, but I am an objective analyst, so... yeah). But the writers (or some combination of the creative forces at work) did not seem to have an overall, far-reaching view or plan of where they envisioned the characters going and there was not really a consistent uniformity that tied events together throughout the 7 seasons. There were times when this happened, but it didn’t seem to happen with any sort of consistency or in a broader-reaching scope. Staying in the safe zone also possibly hindered some more interesting material that could have been explored. I would have preferred to see the writers take on more risqué material versus “playing it safe”, which seemed to turn into the norm as the series progressed.

Ironically, despite lack of character development in certain areas, the biggest positive this series has going for it is the camaraderie of the crew members (this is aided by the premise and setting of being adrift and lost in space). Add to this the fact that certain individual characters were developed greatly and the sense of crew as family (complete with humor and lighter situations, awkward/embarrassing moments that most people can relate to, etc.) was generally successful imo. This is what kept me watching the show…. and on a tremendously superficial (and wholly subjective) note the beauty of some of the actors/characters was another factor in keeping my eyes on the screen.

So I actually loved watching this series and I really just lament the lack of a more “global” view with regards to story trends , the poor development of a certain few, and the whole “playing it safe” thing…

 

[Thomas Eugene]

...but do you not think the reason that Neelix left was completely logical?

Well, as Janeway told it once to Tuvok (I think) that logic didn't matter in that situation. And the same goes for this situation as far as I'm concerned: this is a family show for me and families should not be broken up but kept together - logical or not .