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Voyager season 4

Killing Game is fun. I like how they cut through bulkheads to expand the holodeck, but I'm not sure how it made B'elanna pregnant, or Neelix a Klingon, or how they changed their memories. Did the Doctor mutilate them? I guess it's pretty easy to unmutilate people in the 24th century.

The Hirogen are completely insane. It's like they captured Voyager(which they were likely hunting for after their last encounters), then found this new toy on board and couldn't get enough of it. I mean, they're dressing up as Germans! It's like introducing a kid from 100 years ago to video games.

Hirogen master: "More Holodeck! Bigger Holodeck!"
Ensign Kim: "bbb-b-but we cannn't. Th-th-the power ggrid..."
*SLAP
Hirogen Master: "More Holodeck! More game! More Hunt!"

Vis-a-Vis is one of those episodes where I get frustrated that the bad guy is getting away with it. I know Janeway has no reason to suspect what "Tom" is about to do to her, but I still get frustrated in the way you get frustrated in horror movies when the so-to-be-victim is totally oblivious to their coming fate.

Not a big fan of Omega Directive. I don't "dislike" it, but I don't like when Janeway gets like that(The way she gets at the beginning). These 3 are average/decent-good episodes, in my opinion.

You're all lined up for the last 4 episodes of the season, which are some of my favorites.
I think it was just a fun way to include Roxann Dawson's real life pregnancy. The way I thought it worked for Neelix was that it was basically a holographic "mask" that was projected over his face. Something similar for B'elanna, a fake belly projected over her own. The only real issue I have with this episode is...why when the power was cut to the holodeck were they not left standing on an empty hologrid?
 
I think it was just a fun way to include Roxann Dawson's real life pregnancy. The way I thought it worked for Neelix was that it was basically a holographic "mask" that was projected over his face. Something similar for B'elanna, a fake belly projected over her own. The only real issue I have with this episode is...why when the power was cut to the holodeck were they not left standing on an empty hologrid?
Well the holodeck is actually creating physical things. It was probably just messed up and didn't "unreplicate" the environment. I don't like that idea of holographic "Masks." That's like in First Contact where Picards Holodeck can just "dress" you. A Holographic belly is probably the only explanation for B'elanna, because why would the Hirogen want her pregnant?

Unless...the Hirogen were meticulous and Adamant that the crew portray their characters EXACTLY as the holonovel is written, lest there be Anachronisms in the holostory.

Hirogen Master: "Look Doctor. Right Here! It says that Brigitte is pregnant. She's in a relationship with a German officer. It's crucial to the plot! Make her pregnant!" *walks away "I swear...I'm surrounded by IDIOTS!"
 
I'm just referring to the way she gets all intense and serious, but secretive. If a real captain had run across this thing, and knew it was top secret, they would likely be calm and methodical in how they approach the situation, with a calm demeanor. Not act in a way that arouses everyone's curiosity and gets the whole crew talking and spreading rumors. In my own experience, when an incident happens, and it's above my security clearance, Those in the know, or the one in command acts exactly opposite of how she does. A captain knows(or should know) how to project the type of atmosphere they want in their unit or crew.

That's all. It's not a huge issue, and eventually everyone knows anyway. Maybe she subconsciously wanted an excuse for the crew to find out, so she didn't have to go it alone.
Ah, okay, I gotcha. I wasn't thinking as generally as that when you first mentioned it. I agree, although like you said perhaps being adrift in the DQ affected her mentality in certain circumstances.
 
Well the holodeck is actually creating physical things. It was probably just messed up and didn't "unreplicate" the environment. I don't like that idea of holographic "Masks." That's like in First Contact where Picards Holodeck can just "dress" you. A Holographic belly is probably the only explanation for B'elanna, because why would the Hirogen want her pregnant?

Unless...the Hirogen were meticulous and Adamant that the crew portray their characters EXACTLY as the holonovel is written, lest there be Anachronisms in the holostory.

Hirogen Master: "Look Doctor. Right Here! It says that Brigitte is pregnant. She's in a relationship with a German officer. It's crucial to the plot! Make her pregnant!" *walks away "I swear...I'm surrounded by IDIOTS!"
but they cut all the power to the holodeck, it should have shut everything down

I don't remember off the top of my head if they had mentioned how long these simulations had been running
I'm just referring to the way she gets all intense and serious, but secretive. If a real captain had run across this thing, and knew it was top secret, they would likely be calm and methodical in how they approach the situation, with a calm demeanor. Not act in a way that arouses everyone's curiosity and gets the whole crew talking and spreading rumors. In my own experience, when an incident happens, and it's above my security clearance, Those in the know, or the one in command acts exactly opposite of how she does. A captain knows(or should know) how to project the type of atmosphere they want in their unit or crew.

That's all. It's not a huge issue, and eventually everyone knows anyway. Maybe she subconsciously wanted an excuse for the crew to find out, so she didn't have to go it alone.
Yeah I agree, but I imagine she was freaked out by the situation because she knew about Omega and how dangerous it was.
 
but they cut all the power to the holodeck, it should have shut everything down

I don't remember off the top of my head if they had mentioned how long these simulations had been running

Yeah I agree, but I imagine she was freaked out by the situation because she knew about Omega and how dangerous it was.
That also happens in the beginning of "Night" when power is cut off. The characters disappear and the environment remains, but spoilers, so yeah.
 
My guess is the producers wanted to touch on some of the more negative aspects of humanity in order to advance the characters of 7 and the Doc. They are the two crew members who are striving to be more human and so it makes sense for them to experience negative as well as positive aspects of their humanity as it develops.
I also appreciate that this ep left the ultimate reality open to the viewer... despite what I think in regards to Kovin's innocence another viewer might think the complete opposite and that's fine, and actually to the point of the ep as I see it. This reinforces and balances the disagreeable traits presented by the characters in a way (i.e. we are an imperfect species and that's totally cool...)
I'm way behind commenting on S4 eps, but wanted to provide some background for "Retrospect". A few decades ago, there was a real problem with "Recovered Memories". There were psychologists helping patients and children "remember" that they had been abused. People were being accused of horrendous crimes. There is such a thing as repressed memories of course, but authorities were finding that some psychologists were leading the children and adults to these memories. In some cases there was no evidence or the "memories" couldn't possibly be true. Nevertheless, once the accusations were made, lives were ruined, and then sometimes it was impossible to know whether there was any truth to it. By the 90s, most of the hysteria was over, but an accusation would still pop up now and then. I think the writers were just tackling that contemporary issue thru scifi and those characters. In the course of the episode there is a reference to the unreliability of Recovered Memories.
 
That's a very good point, Odonna, and one that I wasn't aware of... that brings a theoretical question to my mind relating to what the proper time frame for a response would be. At some point all things become water under the proverbial bridge and even scarring life events might be better left untouched. Makes one think for sure and this further clinches my liking of the "open ending" for this episode.
 
That's a very good point, Odonna, and one that I wasn't aware of... that brings a theoretical question to my mind relating to what the proper time frame for a response would be. At some point all things become water under the proverbial bridge and even scarring life events might be better left untouched. Makes one think for sure and this further clinches my liking of the "open ending" for this episode.
Wow, CM, that’s a whole nother subject, beyond my wisdom to some extent. It is thought provoking that is for sure. I would just say that Recovered Memories have the problem of little or no evidence that it even happened and is “remembered” only after perhaps questionable therapy. As I understand it, most victims do remember the abuse (and perhaps would like to forget it…). How they seek and find healing I have to leave to the individuals.

Cosmic Mouse, I see you are moving rapidly through Season 4. Here are my humble thoughts on the Season. I’ll cover half now and more later.
I have mixed feelings about S4 overall. This season’s arc for Seven of Nine’s initial interaction with the crew and her re-discovery of her humanity is well constructed IMO. The episodes are well done and, as is usual, the ensemble balance is the show’s strength. To their credit, they tackle a number of difficult topics in the scifi form.

On the negative side, however, is that so many of the episodes are so grim that I am not inclined to watch them again. The exceptions are “Scorpion pt 2”, of course (I previously said under S3 that “Scorpion” Pts1 & 2 are my favorites of the series), as well as “Waking Moments”, “Hunters”, “Unforgettable”, “Living Witness”, and “One”. Just a few comments on the episodes:

“The Gift” was “in with the new and out with the old”. I thought what they did with Kes was rather bizarre. Too bad they didn’t bring Gary Graham, the nomadic Ocampa, back and let her go off with him. (did they kill him off? I don’t recall…)

“Day of Honor” – it’s always fun seeing B’Elanna having “a Klingon day”. She and Tom in spacesuits was a memorable sequence.

“Nemesis” – Not Chakotay’s best, but I like the episode. Tackles war propaganda, training, and the dehumanizing of an enemy. Chakotay with the little girl was sweet. Yes, the language was a little annoying, though I have thought that the Maquis should have had something like that (though done better), their own way or a shorthand of referring to certain things, as soldiers/sailors do. I especially liked that Voyager made contact with the other side (who reminded me of Nausicans—is that the same make up?). The end where Chakotay just walks away from the alien who had been helping to find him reminded me a bit of the NexGen episode “The Enemy” where Worf refuses to give his blood to save a Romulan.

“Revulsion” – is creepy and suspenseful. Introduces the doctor’s naivete when it comes to other holograms (isomorphs--?).

“The Raven” – It was interesting to see Seven’s back story, her family studying the Borg. But Janeway and the crew should have realized the Borg knew the Hansen’s methods, since they did get assimilated. Plot hole. I did like that they gave Seven Naomi for a friend. It sort of conveyed that Seven was also at an immature stage developmentally (in some areas) and had someone to “grow up” with.

“Scientific Method” – very creepy once we are shown what is going on. The scene between Chakotay and Neelix trying to top each other’s ailments though was pretty funny. :biggrin:

“Year of Hell Pt 1&2” – Very well done, imaginative, an exploration of time manipulation that hasn’t been done before. Also hard for me to watch. Janeway goes a bit over the edge. I don’t blame her given what they’re going through, but the doctor was right to challenge her fitness at that point. I liked when she found the watch and was surprised Chakotay hadn’t recycled it, then she wore it. I liked the irony of after everything Annorax had tried, it was getting rid of his own ship that restored his wife.

“Random Thoughts” – A good scifi concept, thought crimes. A good Tuvok episode.

“Concerning Flight” – Recovering their stolen goods was good, but this ep never grabbed me. I never found their DaVinci hologram all that interesting. :whistle: I’m sure trying out his flying machine was the purpose for the episode, and that was fun.

“Mortal Coil” – A tough topic. I found it more interesting re-watching. Chakotay seems to forget that his consciousness went “spirit walking” in S1 Cathexis, but otherwise good scenes between him and Neelix, especially the end. I loved Sam coming in and needing Neelix to get rid of the replicator monster for Naomi.

“Waking Moments” – A good ensamble piece, with a good featured role for Chakotay. A different kind of alien attack, and then our having to guess when they are really awake or asleep. Begs the question, how do the aliens keep their bodies from wasting away if they only sleep? This was a question that one of them actually raised with the captain.

“Message in a Bottle” – A promising premise that didn’t hold my interest. The introduction of the ancient communication Array was an interesting device. But it seemed a bit too risky to send and possibly lose their only doctor (unless they would, oh, I don’t know, make a copy of him for back up…). The new EMH seemed too goofy to be an upgraded EMH model. And it seemed a bit contrived that the ship just happened to be captured by Romulans. Nevertheless, informing Starfleet of Voyager’s status sets up the next episode.

“Hunters” – I liked the introduction of the ominous, though bombastic, Hirogen. (I guess they were introduced in "Message", but I don't always remember what happened when). I was glad neither Tuvok nor Seven got eaten, but in hindsight there needed to be a “red shirt” who was just to show these dudes don’t play around. I liked their receiving letters from home. Good character highlights. At the time I liked the scene at the end where Janeway talks about her fiancé getting married. It looked like they were clearing the decks for a Janeway-Chakotay romance (and I have heard that was how it was originally written). Now, the way she says she really has no opportunities with Chakotay sitting right there, makes Janeway come across as either insensitive or a numbskull. :brickwall: Very poorly re-written IMO. :D

More of the Season later.
 
I have a soft spot for Waking Moments because it inspired me to try to start realizing when I was dreaming. Which had interesting results.

I found that if you ask yourself the question, "Am I dreaming?", you always get the right answer. So if you start asking yourself the question when you're awake, you start asking it when you're asleep too.

Also I heard a trick from someone else, if you look at your hands while you're dreaming they will appear distorted.

Yes, it's true, unfortunately. Inception...I don't know how to say this...is scientifically unsound.
 
Random Thoughts” – A good scifi concept, thought crimes. A good Tuvok episode.

They were on the planet for 3 days, neelix was surprised floozy could read her mind.

Tuvok's telepathy seemed more advanced than we've ever seen from vulcan's before, presumably the planet has very powerful telepaths that bring him up

And that's just before the credits!

After Torres Is arrested Chuckles orders the crew to beam back up. Some time later neelix and seven are on he planet having a little chat while needlessly pushing some objects around. Neelix turns into a doctor too - identifying that floozy is dead just by touching her. No attempt at CPR, and less blood than I lost when I nicked myself shaving.
 
Tuvok had a personal trainer named Lwaxana. She always told him "Now don't let your skills get rusty, little one."
 
To me the premise of Killing Game is overly absurd past the point of suspension of disbelief, and that eclipses any cool scenes the episode has.
 
To me the premise of Killing Game is overly absurd past the point of suspension of disbelief, and that eclipses any cool scenes the episode has.
What specifically? For me it was yet again a reset and business is back. Shit if only we could reset button the hurricane damage.
 
Is it a reset button though? It's a two-parter, and there may or may not be a follow-up to this story.

Cosmic , have you watched any more episodes?
 
Cosmic Mouse, I see you are moving rapidly through Season 4. Here are my humble thoughts on the Season. I’ll cover half now and more later.
I have mixed feelings about S4 overall. This season’s arc for Seven of Nine’s initial interaction with the crew and her re-discovery of her humanity is well constructed IMO. The episodes are well done and, as is usual, the ensemble balance is the show’s strength. To their credit, they tackle a number of difficult topics in the scifi form.
Thank you for your excellent comments, Odonna! I am moving rapidly through this season, partly because I have seen a handful of these eps previously from this season, so I think it sped things up somehow. It was almost too fast since some of the episodes blurred together a little in my brain and I think details got lost in a few places. For example, I didn't even notice the plot hole in Raven that you mentioned and I'm usually pretty good at picking up on those types of things. I agree with some of what you said regarding the individual eps, esp. Nemesis, Scientific Method and year of Hell. I have to say, though, that I have liked every single episode so far this season (in varying degrees), so this might be my fav season yet, but I have 5 more eps to go and it's still pretty close with season 3 I think at this point.

Yeah, and in Hunters, when Janeway has that discussion with Chakotay Janeway does come off kind of like a numb-skull (maybe that's too strong a word). I mean there's a HOT guy right in front of you, stupid! Ugh, reminds me of some of the times when I was younger and guys would hit on me and I was oblivious until the old hindsight is 20-20 thing kicked in later. Argh!
And when she said this:
It made me realise that I was using him as a safety net, you know, as a way to avoid becoming involved with someone else.

...and then ... nothing. I mean, he's standing right in front of you, lady!! :lol:

Also, having a "red shirt" (that's a Star Trek term, huh? I'm not quite versed in this lingo yet) getting eaten or mauled by a Hirogen would have been excellent. :devil: ...but that's just the darker side of my brain talking. Love those Hirogens...
 
Cosmic , have you watched any more episodes?

Hiya, Prax... :)
I had some social engagements that sucked up some of my time recently (went to a BOMB Southeastern Asian restaurant last night though), so I've only seen one ep since I last posted:

Unforgettable, which I thought was pretty good, and it gets extra props for featuring the sexiest guy on the show. However, I thought it could have used a tiny, little subplot in addition to the main story between Chak and Madsen's character (her character name is alluding me right now). I think that might have made the ep flow a little better, maybe. Maybe I'm off on that one. This was a good Chakotay episode though, might be my third fav behind Distant Origin and Unity so far in the series. And, man, I would have traded places with Madsen in a nanosecond on that bio-bed! :drool: Plus, is it my imagination or did Janeway look a little miffed when she and Chak have the convo about Kellin and their relationship? ;)
Interesting concept with the short-term memory loss idea though... I do have one question, and maybe this is due to something I missed (and I had to look this up- thank you transcript site!)

KELLIN: I'll try. It's complicated. You see, we've met before.
CHAKOTAY: If that were true, I'm sure I'd remember.
KELLIN: No, you wouldn't. You couldn't. You see, the memories of my people can't be held in the minds of other races. When we encounter others, which we do infrequently, they remember us for a few hours, but then the memories fade away. We're completely forgotten by the next day.

...but then later in the ep she's recalling previous events with Chak and says that she knows after she leaves he would forget her in just a few hours. I don't where I'm going with this, but something with the time frame seemed inconsistent in the ep. Small gripe though, as it was a good ep imo.
 
Hiya, Prax... :)
I had some social engagements that sucked up some of my time recently (went to a BOMB Southeastern Asian restaurant last night though), so I've only seen one ep since I last posted:

Unforgettable, which I thought was pretty good, and it gets extra props for featuring the sexiest guy on the show. However, I thought it could have used a tiny, little subplot in addition to the main story between Chak and Madsen's character (her character name is alluding me right now). I think that might have made the ep flow a little better, maybe. Maybe I'm off on that one. This was a good Chakotay episode though, might be my third fav behind Distant Origin and Unity so far in the series. And, man, I would have traded places with Madsen in a nanosecond on that bio-bed! :drool: Plus, is it my imagination or did Janeway look a little miffed when she and Chak have the convo about Kellin and their relationship? ;)
Interesting concept with the short-term memory loss idea though... I do have one question, and maybe this is due to something I missed (and I had to look this up- thank you transcript site!)

KELLIN: I'll try. It's complicated. You see, we've met before.
CHAKOTAY: If that were true, I'm sure I'd remember.
KELLIN: No, you wouldn't. You couldn't. You see, the memories of my people can't be held in the minds of other races. When we encounter others, which we do infrequently, they remember us for a few hours, but then the memories fade away. We're completely forgotten by the next day.

...but then later in the ep she's recalling previous events with Chak and says that she knows after she leaves he would forget her in just a few hours. I don't where I'm going with this, but something with the time frame seemed inconsistent in the ep. Small gripe though, as it was a good ep imo.
I think I mentioned this previously, but Beltran says this was his favorite episode.

I haven't seen it in a long time, but I just love the ending where he gets out the paper and pencil.
 
I think I mentioned this previously, but Beltran says this was his favorite episode.

I haven't seen it in a long time, but I just love the ending where he gets out the paper and pencil.
I liked that too (the paper and pencil)... it was slightly touching, in a way, when he explained his reason to Neelix.
Yes, I think I recall you mentioning that now (that this was Beltran's fav ep), and that reminds me of something I meant to post but forgot when I started typing and that is that I think I prefer Beltran's acting when he is not reciting technobabble, but when he is engaging another character in more "normal" or "human" talk. So, when he's acting like a normal human I guess and not like a Starfleet officer his acting seems more genuine to me. I don;t mean that as a criticism, though it sounds like one, but I think Beltran must have been more engaged and that resulted in a more memorable performance and it makes sense that he would regard this ep highly.
 
Beltran has also mentioned Tattoo when asked his favorite episode on another occasion, but he also mentioned he liked working with Virginia Madsen in Unforgettable. In fact, I think I read he's working on another project with her. I think you're right, CM, that Beltran prefers character interaction to the sort of ship's business filler talk. Alan Rickman once said that the camera likes you if it can see you thinking. Chakotay does a lot of "thinking" in this episode that comes across well IMO. I used to wonder why he was so distrustful of Kellin, and then I got to thinking about how he had been manipulated by Seska, and Riley, and maybe even Janeway a bit. Of course, he would be mistrustful.
 
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