Voyager Hate

[JeffinOakland]

It's not that Star Trek fans or even Star Wars fans are anti-intellectual. It's that they come to these kinds of sites to discuss one of their favorite genres. There are still intellectual discussions here, but they don't always use an element of Star Trek as their subjects. On this site alone, you find insightful dialogues on crime, human rights, contraception, physics, philosophy, and whether Spock's left ear is a millimeter taller than the right.

Not by definition, of course not but all people, ST fans, SW fans, ST & SW fans and fans of neither can be at times anti-intellectual. Human nature. Emotionalism wins over thought more often than not. It does seem that comment boards on the internet, whether here or Facebook or CNN or anywhere else, where comments and/or discussion is allowed, inevitably attract and succumb to a level of anti-intellectualism simply because people get extremely passionate about their opinions.

 

[fireproof78]

It's not that Star Trek fans or even Star Wars fans are anti-intellectual. It's that they come to these kinds of sites to discuss one of their favorite genres. There are still intellectual discussions here, but they don't always use an element of Star Trek as their subjects. On this site alone, you find insightful dialogues on crime, human rights, contraception, physics, philosophy, and whether Spock's left ear is a millimeter taller than the right.

Not by definition, of course not but all people, ST fans, SW fans, ST & SW fans and fans of neither can be at times anti-intellectual. Human nature. Emotionalism wins over thought more often than not. It does seem that comment boards on the internet, whether here or Facebook or CNN or anywhere else, where comments and/or discussion is allowed, inevitably attract and succumb to a level of anti-intellectualism simply because people get extremely passionate about their opinions.

Well, it is easy to have a knee-jerk, emotional response, to an opinion you hold very dear and feel the desire to ride out to defend it on the battlefield called the Internet.

It sometimes bears reminding that the words on the page were written by other human beings who have feelings too. Also, it bears reminding that no one has all the answers either.

... so confused ... Who's arguing for what now?

About whether or not VOY's audience was already out to dislike the show when it started and whether or not the show got a more hostile reception than its predecessors.

Also VOY's audience had unrealistic expectations (tensions between the crew lasting 7 years straight with no ending until the series finale).

Oh. Well, that's easy: Star Trek fans weren't collectively biased against VOY anymore than they were against any other post-TNG Trek show. You could always find some slice of fans who weren't going to accept it, no matter how it turned out once it aired, for this or that reason. Far and away, most fans gave it a fair shake.

As for the general audience, it was the most receptive it could have been, given that TNG had been reasonably accepted in mainstream circles.

If you look at the Nielsen ratings, VOY lost viewers by attrition, just like every other post-TNG Trek show. Just look at the ratings of the premier: it's right in line with TNG. People gave VOY a chance. But then people tuned out for some reason; it must have been because they didn't find VOY sufficiently engaging, despite having given it a try.

That initial relatively sharp drop-off before settling into steady decline is the same for each of DS9, VOY, and ENT. With but one exception, the situation doesn't really merit singling any of the three out over the others. Their curves are too similar for that. It's just that each show did worse than the one preceding it, despite people having had high expectations at the outset. Clearly, though, by the time ENT rolled around, people were getting tired of it, and therein is the exception: ENT is the one show of the three whose premier didn't equal or exceed TNG-level ratings.

ENT is probably the one were you could see the difference between it and the other shows. I think the ratings reflect that fact too. Thank you for sharing

 

[Melakon]

A lot of it has to do with the subject of some of the threads. I've seen about five Tuvix threads so far, and have been here less than two years. After seeing all the TOS episodes in the 1960s, there's very little new that gets into play, especially if someone just discovered "Spock's Brain" yesterday and wonders if anyone else has seen it.

If the subject doesn't interest people because they've discussed 20 times already, or as recently as last week, you can't expect them to be actively engaged all the time.

 

[Last Redshirt]

I liked parts of Voyager but I feel like I can sum up the problems with it, and why people dislike it/hate it.

It had so much potential with the concept and the characters, but they pissed it all away.

Instead of telling a dark tale about a divided crew of people who absolutely despise each other, with a captain who's stranded her crew light years from home, doing everything in their power to get back home, their morals sometimes coming into conflict as they discover new friends, foes, and worlds, it was TNG with less cast chemistry.

 

[JeffinOakland]

Well, it is easy to have a knee-jerk, emotional response, to an opinion you hold very dear and feel the desire to ride out to defend it on the battlefield called the Internet.

It sometimes bears reminding that the words on the page were written by other human beings who have feelings too. Also, it bears reminding that no one has all the answers either.

exactly...you said what I said but you said it better

 

[sojourner]

If only people were this passionate about hunger, poverty. war, crime & disease.

You're on the wrong board if you came here for that kind of intellectual discourse. The words "Star Trek" should have been a clue.

Point taken. There's a reason I, a Star Wars geek, won't go anywhere near Star Wars boards. If you think Star Trek fans can be anti-intellectual...

You missed the point. He wasn't saying that there is anything inherently "anti-intellectual" here, but that your comment doesn't relate to the subject of the thread except as an attempt to derail it. If you really wanted to discuss hunger, poverty, war, crime, or disease there are threads on the TrekBBS forums that address those topics. I would start with the Miscellaneous forum for more apropos topics to your interests.

 

[Melakon]

I never hated Voyager. Disappointed with some of the episodes? Yes, but it never turned into hate for the show.

 

[JeffinOakland]

You're on the wrong board if you came here for that kind of intellectual discourse. The words "Star Trek" should have been a clue.

Point taken. There's a reason I, a Star Wars geek, won't go anywhere near Star Wars boards. If you think Star Trek fans can be anti-intellectual...

You missed the point. He wasn't saying that there is anything inherently "anti-intellectual" here, but that your comment doesn't relate to the subject of the thread except as an attempt to derail it. If you really wanted to discuss hunger, poverty, war, crime, or disease there are threads on the TrekBBS forums that address those topics. I would start with the Miscellaneous forum for more apropos topics to your interests.

I think you missed both our points. Read from the beginning.

 

[fireproof78]

I liked parts of Voyager but I feel like I can sum up the problems with it, and why people dislike it/hate it.

It had so much potential with the concept and the characters, but they pissed it all away.

Instead of telling a dark tale about a divided crew of people who absolutely despise each other, with a captain who's stranded her crew light years from home, doing everything in their power to get back home, their morals sometimes coming into conflict as they discover new friends, foes, and worlds, it was TNG with less cast chemistry.

I agree with you to a point. It did not have to be a dark tale, though it could have darker elements, such as the disagreement between the two crews, even as they come together against a common enemy. This isn't even a new style of story. Starship Troopers was a book about a young man becoming a leader and part of it was his, and the rest of his platoon's, uniting against common enemies, from platoon sergeants, to giant Bugs.

I think you make a good point regarding the lack of proper use of what had the potential to be a unique foray in to the Trek universe.

Well, it is easy to have a knee-jerk, emotional response, to an opinion you hold very dear and feel the desire to ride out to defend it on the battlefield called the Internet.

It sometimes bears reminding that the words on the page were written by other human beings who have feelings too. Also, it bears reminding that no one has all the answers either.

exactly...you said what I said but you said it better

Thank you for the compliment. It is appreciated

 

[Melakon]

Point taken. There's a reason I, a Star Wars geek, won't go anywhere near Star Wars boards. If you think Star Trek fans can be anti-intellectual...

You missed the point. He wasn't saying that there is anything inherently "anti-intellectual" here, but that your comment doesn't relate to the subject of the thread except as an attempt to derail it. If you really wanted to discuss hunger, poverty, war, crime, or disease there are threads on the TrekBBS forums that address those topics. I would start with the Miscellaneous forum for more apropos topics to your interests.

I think you missed both our points. Read from the beginning.

Lecturing a commenter as if they have a comprehension problem is not good form here.

 

[Tosk]

I can't speak for Anwar, but I wasn't arguing emotionally.

...Well, maybe exasperation, but certainly nothing stronger than that.

 

[wulfio]

It sometimes bears reminding that the words on the page were written by other human beings who have feelings too. Also, it bears reminding that no one has all the answers either.

I sometimes wonder if individuals on those articles comment sections, or forums actually behave and communicate like that in their day to day life.

 

[fireproof78]

It sometimes bears reminding that the words on the page were written by other human beings who have feelings too. Also, it bears reminding that no one has all the answers either.

I sometimes wonder if individuals on those articles comment sections, or forums actually behave and communicate like that in their day to day life.

This is doubtful due to a variety of factors that involve psychology of people and personal perception. In real life, there is the risk of social stigma and social norms that, if violated, result in negative responses by others in a way that is more tangible than online.

Online, there is what is called the "anonymous" factor, where the social consequences of negative behavior are distanced and do not directly impact personal life. If a discussion becomes too painful or frustrating, I can shut the computer, walk away and never touch that thread again. In real life, I have to deal with difficult conversations all the time.

The other aspect is the fact that we don't see other posters as people. There is a distance factor that comes in to play because there is no face, no voice, to associate with the words. The words also can be interpreted as very negative, and even hostile, due to a lack of vocal or facial cues. So, offense can start easily and spread very quickly.

Also, as someone else posted, we humans can be very defensive of our opinions, and online is no exception.

That is a long response to say, people behave differently online

 

[Anwar]

Instead of telling a dark tale about a divided crew of people who absolutely despise each other, with a captain who's stranded her crew light years from home, doing everything in their power to get back home, their morals sometimes coming into conflict as they discover new friends, foes, and worlds, it was TNG with less cast chemistry.

Except the Feds and the Maquis DIDN'T despise one another, and the Captain didn't strand them on a whim (the Array wasn't a truly viable option in the first place).

VOY's situation was NOT a new or unique one, it was something TOS and TNG had both done before and more than once. It's actually an inherently limited premise, not good for more than 2 seasons.

The premise also keeping them from fleshing out their surroundings didn't help matters.

Or the audience writing off the series as a total failure 20 minutes into the first episode.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Instead of telling a dark tale about a divided crew of people who absolutely despise each other, with a captain who's stranded her crew light years from home, doing everything in their power to get back home, their morals sometimes coming into conflict as they discover new friends, foes, and worlds, it was TNG with less cast chemistry.

Except the Feds and the Maquis DIDN'T despise one another, and the Captain didn't strand them on a whim (the Array wasn't a truly viable option in the first place).

Apart from the first episode telling us they did. Their not following through on that premise doesn't mean they didn't at the start.

VOY's situation was NOT a new or unique one, it was something TOS and TNG had both done before and more than once. It's actually an inherently limited premise, not good for more than 2 seasons.

You've convinced yourself this opinion is a fact. Still not a fact however much you repeat it.

The premise also keeping them from fleshing out their surroundings didn't help matters.

You can't imagine it, none the less they did whether or not you're satisfied with the effort doesn't make your assertion a fact.

Or the audience writing off the series as a total failure 20 minutes into the first episode.

Except for all those folks who stayed with it.

 

[Anwar]

Apart from the first episode telling us they did. Their not following through on that premise doesn't mean they didn't at the start.

Nothing in DS9 or TNG suggested that the Feds and Maquis really hated one another, and aside from a couple of Maquis members being sourpusses in "Caretaker" most of them in VOY didn't hate the Feds either nor did the Feds hate them.

As for the Array, being brought to the Array killed people and damaged the ship. Going back that way would've killed people too.

You've convinced yourself this opinion is a fact. Still not a fact however much you repeat it.

Where No Man Has Gone Before, Where No Man has gone before, Star Trek V and I'm probably forgetting others.

You can't imagine it, none the less they did whether or not you're satisfied with the effort doesn't make your assertion a fact.

"No Support", remember? And if they did want new aliens and new surroundings they shouldn't have gotten PO'ed when anything new stuck around for more than one episode!

Except for all those folks who stayed with it.

To heckle it, maybe. And those who were trying to enjoy it over the blathering from the Haters.

 

[Melakon]

Believe it or not, Anwar, not every Voyager fan who liked or disliked the show was active on the internet in those days. Though maybe those people aren't counted as fans in your book.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Apart from the first episode telling us they did. Their not following through on that premise doesn't mean they didn't at the start.

Nothing in DS9 or TNG suggested that the Feds and Maquis really hated one another, and aside from a couple of Maquis members being sourpusses in "Caretaker" most of them in VOY didn't hate the Feds either nor did the Feds hate them.

As for the Array, being brought to the Array killed people and damaged the ship. Going back that way would've killed people too.

You've convinced yourself this opinion is a fact. Still not a fact however much you repeat it.

Where No Man Has Gone Before, Where No Man has gone before, Star Trek V and I'm probably forgetting others.

You can't imagine it, none the less they did whether or not you're satisfied with the effort doesn't make your assertion a fact.

"No Support", remember? And if they did want new aliens and new surroundings they shouldn't have gotten PO'ed when anything new stuck around for more than one episode!

Except for all those folks who stayed with it.

To heckle it, maybe. And those who were trying to enjoy it over the blathering from the Haters.

Strawmen, opinions, and baseless assertion. No, though you'll keep repeating them like a broken record, they still will be only your empty opinion, not fact.

 

[Anwar]

Strawmen, opinions, and baseless assertion. No, though you'll keep repeating them like a broken record, they still will be only your empty opinion, not fact.

The only thing empty is your rebuttal. You haven't refuted anything I've said aside from saying it's just conjecture.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Strawmen, opinions, and baseless assertion. No, though you'll keep repeating them like a broken record, they still will be only your empty opinion, not fact.

The only thing empty is your rebuttal. You haven't refuted anything I've said aside from saying it's just conjecture.

That's all it is. The show worked, it still plays on TVs around the world, sells videos on Amazon and other websites, and in stores, folks buy novels long after it went off the air, not to mention toys, posters and what not, all in spite of your opinion vainly trying to masquerade as fact.