Voyager Hate

[Anwar]

If Beltran cared, he should've put more effort into his acting than this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o98ULd9T0tk

Honestly, look at the emotion Mulgrew and Hackett put into this scene compared to Beltran.

 

[fireproof78]

If Beltran cared, he should've put more effort into his acting than this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o98ULd9T0tk

Honestly, look at the emotion Mulgrew and Hackett put into this scene compared to Beltran.

So, he is a poor actor. Trek is loaded with those. It doesn't mean he doesn't care. I can see the connection, but that doesn't follow from what I have read either.

Like I said, he is not 100% right and I am not supporting him. I am looking at his point of view to gain understanding of what the behind the scenes of Voyager was like.

Again, not hatred from me and not even from those Trek fans I know. It's just a wondering at how this show came together and why it failed the way it did.

Take that how you will.

 

[wulfio]

I enjoy all the trek series. I probably hold voyager in higher regard than ENT; though not by much. But my knock against VOY is that I find Janeway to be a big old self righteous wind bag that looks down her nose at everything a lot of the time... and Neelix was a cartoon character in the early going.

So while I may knock something about the series, I don't have a hate for it, since I enjoy it more than 99.9% of the programming in tv land.

 

[Drone]

Hey, has the carousel stopped yet???

 

[Gov Kodos]

Just to be clear, are you saying that we aren't allowed to discuss it any longer?

Not at all, but, as you mentioned earlier, a lot of the discussion is circular, and I don't think that you or Anwar are going to change your opinions.

I can't even follow what the debate is about.

Just make a baseless assertion then reiterate it as fact along with anecdotal opinion that agrees with the assertion and you'll be on the same wavelength.

 

[fireproof78]

Not at all, but, as you mentioned earlier, a lot of the discussion is circular, and I don't think that you or Anwar are going to change your opinions.

I can't even follow what the debate is about.

Just make a baseless assertion then reiterate it as fact along with anecdotal opinion that agrees with the assertion and you'll be on the same wavelength.

I'm against whatever you are for and I have the statistics to prove it

 

[plynch]

It's fun and inho has more verve than TNG. Deeply flawed, yes. At the time it was more of the same look/feel/writing/camerawork/effects. Since I haven't seen TNG in forever, VOY grows now. I would rewatch it before TNG, in fact, because of the preachiness there.

TNG crew was too nicey-blah, for my tastes, other than Picard and Worf. VOY had more quirky characters, which makes for fun. Again, all opinion. Be well. Goodnight, actually.

 

[JeffinOakland]

Its amazing to observe the emotional histrionics and leaps of logic (pedantry and deliberately? missing the point seem to be frequent favs) a person will put themselves through to avoid conceding a point that is at odds w their opinion about...a television show. If only people were this passionate about hunger, poverty. war, crime & disease.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Is everyone thoroughly chastened, now? How dare you come to a Trek board simply to talk about Star Trek?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

... so confused ... Who's arguing for what now?

 

[Gov Kodos]

... so confused ... Who's arguing for what now?

We're arguing about whose arguing pedantically if in fact they are or are posing said argument hypothetically about what constitutes drivel as opposed to non-drivel as a matter of opinion. Maybe.

 

[Melakon]

If only people were this passionate about hunger, poverty. war, crime & disease.

You're on the wrong board if you came here for that kind of intellectual discourse. The words "Star Trek" should have been a clue.

 

[JeffinOakland]

If only people were this passionate about hunger, poverty. war, crime & disease.

You're on the wrong board if you came here for that kind of intellectual discourse. The words "Star Trek" should have been a clue.

Point taken. There's a reason I, a Star Wars geek, won't go anywhere near Star Wars boards. If you think Star Trek fans can be anti-intellectual...

 

[Anwar]

... so confused ... Who's arguing for what now?

About whether or not VOY's audience was already out to dislike the show when it started and whether or not the show got a more hostile reception than its predecessors.

Also VOY's audience had unrealistic expectations (tensions between the crew lasting 7 years straight with no ending until the series finale).

 

[wulfio]

If only people were this passionate about hunger, poverty. war, crime & disease.

You're on the wrong board if you came here for that kind of intellectual discourse. The words "Star Trek" should have been a clue.

Point taken. There's a reason I, a Star Wars geek, won't go anywhere near Star Wars boards. If you think Star Trek fans can be anti-intellectual...

that's one thing that surprised me. I had never been on a forum before. I never expected any Star Trek fans to be "anti-intellectual".

 

[JeffinOakland]

You're on the wrong board if you came here for that kind of intellectual discourse. The words "Star Trek" should have been a clue.

Point taken. There's a reason I, a Star Wars geek, won't go anywhere near Star Wars boards. If you think Star Trek fans can be anti-intellectual...

that's one thing that surprised me. I had never been on a forum before. I never expected any Star Trek fans to be "anti-intellectual".

People are people

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

I wasn't a frequent enough of a viewer to say this with any authority, but I just didn't get what the basic conflict with the Maquis would've been about. Their whole story just didn't resonate with me. The 'journalistic' who-what-when-where-why elements just seemed to be non-existant to me. There wasn't a definitive point of view for me to relate to. We're the good guys, they're the bad guys just isn't enough. Not enough meat on those bones.

Now, a ship in a Day of the Dove-type situation makes more sense to me. Just imagine Kirk's and Kang's crews having to work together for an extended time. Seems that stories in that type of framework would practically write themselves.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

... so confused ... Who's arguing for what now?

About whether or not VOY's audience was already out to dislike the show when it started and whether or not the show got a more hostile reception than its predecessors.

Also VOY's audience had unrealistic expectations (tensions between the crew lasting 7 years straight with no ending until the series finale).

Oh. Well, that's easy: Star Trek fans weren't collectively biased against VOY anymore than they were against any other post-TNG Trek show. You could always find some slice of fans who weren't going to accept it, no matter how it turned out once it aired, for this or that reason. Far and away, most fans gave it a fair shake.

As for the general audience, it was the most receptive it could have been, given that TNG had been reasonably accepted in mainstream circles.

If you look at the Nielsen ratings, VOY lost viewers by attrition, just like every other post-TNG Trek show. Just look at the ratings of the premier: it's right in line with TNG. People gave VOY a chance. But then people tuned out for some reason; it must have been because they didn't find VOY sufficiently engaging, despite having given it a try.

That initial relatively sharp drop-off before settling into steady decline is the same for each of DS9, VOY, and ENT. With but one exception, the situation doesn't really merit singling any of the three out over the others*. Their curves are too similar for that. It's just that each show did worse than the one preceding it, despite people having had high expectations at the outset. Clearly, though, by the time ENT rolled around, people were getting tired of it, and therein is the exception: ENT is the one show of the three whose premier didn't equal or exceed TNG-level ratings.

* - ETA: To clarify, I mean singling out for being notably worse than the others, beyond the general evident overall trend of going ever downward to lower ratings. DS9 is notable for having the highest rated episode of all, its premier, but even though VOY's was lower, it wasn't notably lower.

 

[Melakon]

It's not that Star Trek fans or even Star Wars fans are anti-intellectual. It's that they come to these kinds of sites to discuss one of their favorite genres. There are still intellectual discussions here, but they don't always use an element of Star Trek as their subjects. On this site alone, you find insightful dialogues on crime, human rights, contraception, physics, philosophy, and whether Spock's left ear is a millimeter taller than the right.

 

[wulfio]

It's not that Star Trek fans or even Star Wars fans are anti-intellectual. It's that they come to these kinds of sites to discuss one of their favorite genres. There are still intellectual discussions here, but they don't always use an element of Star Trek as their subjects. On this site alone, you find insightful dialogues on crime, human rights, contraception, physics, philosophy, and whether Spock's left ear is a millimeter taller than the right.

The subject matter isn't what I was referring to. It's more about reading comprehension, logic, deductive reasoning, etc.