Voyager fans.. are you disappointed about Discovery?
- Thread starter Refuge
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One of the best parts of those films. I look forward to seeing him Discovery 
See I thought it was difficult for the actors to play iconic roles. Not just the role of say Spock but its Nimoy's Spock. How do you do that without it being a parody or a caricature? Especially if an accent is involved.
McCoy didn't bother me or draw a comparison. I thought Karl Urban (huh just read he's a Kiwi), did a fine job.
Are you kidding? Is he going to be in Discovery?
McCoy didn't bother me or draw a comparison. I thought Karl Urban (huh just read he's a Kiwi), did a fine job.
Are you kidding? Is he going to be in Discovery?
Hence, the wink. See, sense of humor 
I think that the cast, save for Pegg, did a great job of giving those characters a life of their own, without dipping in to caricature. I love listening to how Pine prepared for the role to specifically avoid that, and how much he respected Shatner and the work he had done before.
I think that the cast, save for Pegg, did a great job of giving those characters a life of their own, without dipping in to caricature. I love listening to how Pine prepared for the role to specifically avoid that, and how much he respected Shatner and the work he had done before.
Vulcans were assholes in "Amok Time", which our first visit to planet Vulcan and informed their depiction in ENT and the recent movies.
Check out The Motion Picture's Klingons!
Here's an opinion piece from 1980:
and that is what Star Trek is all aboutThat was very enlightening not just about Klingons but about us..
Check out The Motion Picture's Klingons!
Here's an opinion piece from 1980:
Starlog?
To me, the Enterprise Vulcans lined up pretty well with how they were portrayed in TOS. Vulcans were dicks.
I'm not talking about whether they were ass-holes or not. They were. I'm talking about the back-story that Enterprise established for the Vulcan's. The mind melders being outcasts, the Syrannite movement. When I've brought this up before in some threads in other sections, a few people said these things were never established in any of the other series. OK, fine, they weren't. But with all due respect, it still feels wrong to me.
Which is the beauty of it. It's fiction and means different things to different people.
I'm okay with what they did with the melders and Syrannite movements, even though the stories themselves could have used more polish. Pretty much anything they did was going to feel "wrong" to some folks. There was just so little on Vulcans that fanon had pretty much taken over.
and the human adventure continues.and that is what Star Trek is all about
Indeed. Vulcans were not very well explored, and Spock and Sarek were really the only benchmarks by which that species could be measured, and they certainly were not "average." So, there really wasn't a good representation of Vulcan culture.
Things will always "feel wrong" in terms of established expectation. But, that's ok.
An old Best of Trek paperback
I think the (original) creation of a character or species is the foundation of it. Albeit sketchy, whatever was referenced in the Original (regards Vulcans in this case) should be left WITHOUT the nonsense of reinventing anything in a post production, even if that post production calls itself a pre-quel. That being said if the first writer the one who envisioned the character or species has always had an origins concept, he/she has a right to develop it. Others coming along and reinventing the wheel is annoying though. They can rewrite history if they want or put their spin to something that undermines the integrity of what has been established.
Isn't it boring and pointless to tell the backstory exactly as expected, though? Yes there may be misfires (the male Orions are the slaves!), but things like Spock being the guy running Kirk's infamous Kobayashi Maru test, or Data's granddad being involved with modified humans before switching to robotics as a means of creating "better" life, add extra layers to the backstories IMO.
They didn't rewrite anything, there was nothing there to begin with. The Vulcans had two appearances outside of Spock. One was "Amok Time", where they looked at humans with open disdain. The other was "Journey to Babel", where Spock's father refused to talk to his son for 18 years over a career choice.
It was pretty clear the Vulcans were standoffish dicks, which showed up again with Captain Solok in "Take Me Out to the Holosuite" (DS9). Tuvok wasn't as openly dickish, but it was clear he preferred his space.
Could the Enterprise stories featuring Vulcans been sharper? Yes. But their open disdain for humans was there from the beginning. I tend to like that they (being a diverse planet) has schisms across the population with things like V'tosh ka'tur (Vulcans with emotion, "Fusion"), the Syraanites and fear of melders. Look at all the flavors of Christianity across our world. It is silly to think the Vulcans are some monolithic culture where everyone acts and feels the same way.
There was also the crew of 'U.S.S Intrepid' in The Immunity Syndrome.
Where the Vulcans displayed their lack of prejudice by...apparently only recruiting Vulcans. From the incredibly diverse Starfleet. On a type of ship that usually required hundreds of crewmembers to operate.
Hmmm...
All the best candidates were Vulcan. It was only logical
Even with fiction there is an expectation that the rules aren't going to change later in the game or perversely earlier. I can understand people feeling the nobility they may have felt for Vulcans because of Spock and Tuvok should be reflected. Not having much to go on gave later writers a chance to really screw the Vulcans over.
But they didn't change. Go watch "Amok Time" and "Journey to Babel". Even Spock was a dick from time to time, going on about how much better Vulcans were versus humans.
What nobility is there in forcing men to fight to the death for the ownership of a female? What nobility is there in the fact that women are treated as property? In public, Sarek doesn't treat Amanda as an equal but as a slave.
People can come up with wild explanations for why they like things. But "nobility" in Vulcans, I don't see it.
