Voyager Crossovers

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Admiral Jean-Luc Picard, Aug 18, 2020.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not really, no. I actually want to learn about Juranti and Raffi.
     
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  2. ThreeEdgedSword

    ThreeEdgedSword Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, I find Raffi very interesting. I don't like Jurati, so not much interest... but that's still more interest than I have in Planky. And Elnor needs some development, too. Hopefully Laris (& Zhaban)... hell, Number One!
     
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  3. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Admiral Premium Member

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    Chakotay might be too busy being a cardboard cutout at one of the MLB stadiums at the moment, but check back in the off-season.
     
  4. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not really. Touching on an ex from 20 years ago is in no way saying that that ex is the only thing about a character worth exploring. We've seen multiple male characters (and at least one female that I remember) spend an episode catching up with an old ex. Some of those stories are better than others, but none of them were ever presented as or even characterized by fans as limiting the stars to *just* someone's ex and nothing else.

    Now, if Chakotay has nothing else to do in the episode but be the ex and his characterization/presentation is boring (as it *very* often was on Voyager - I'm no fan of him, either), then it would certainly be a bad episode. But obviously anyone who chose to make it would make that choice on the basis of their opinion that Chakotay is a better character than you (or I) give him credit for and would do their best to make it a good episode. Literally no one would ever say 'This character is the most boring ever! But we must still bring him back because we couldn't possibly explore anything else with this fan favorite character whose had tons of stories of her own other than to reunite her with her abominably boring ex!'
     
  5. Filker

    Filker Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Yeah, I especially enjoyed that episode where we meet Seven's ex, Bjayzl.

    A lot of people want Beverly Crusher to appear in PIC, so that we can see what her relationship with Jean-Luc is like after all these years. Hey, do you know what would be a great idea? If Gates McFadden does appear in PIC, let's spend an entire episode dealing with the return of Ronin, from Caldoa IV! Ooh, ooh, and if Troi returns for Season 2, let's have her spend her limited screentime talking about her son, Ian, that she had after she was unwillingly impregnated by an alien.

    Oh, wait, no, those were the most insulting storylines that Crusher and Troi were ever involved with...

    Chakotay is not just 'Seven's old ex' - the Chakotay/Seven storyline was literally the worst thing that ever happened to her. The Trek fanbase has been making fun of Chakotay/Seven for TWENTY YEARS, now. Voyager's final episode, and the producers were so checked out that they decided the grand resolution of Seven's storyline was for her to become some guy's mid-life crisis wife.

    Seven has spent thirteen years fighting as a vigilante in a lawless hellhole. If you are presented with this intriguing history, and you decide instead, nah, let's check in with the utterly inconsequential, charisma-free guy who made her his trophy wife two fucking decades ago, then you are essentially saying that Seven's character has no intrinsic worth.
     
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  6. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Just because you bring him back doesnt mean they need to focus on that aspect of the character.

    Chakotay isn't just a minor side story for Seven. The character was there for years before Seven even appeared and years more working with her before they dropped that story in there at the end.

    And he's not as bad as the bashing he gets here. I think he was as solid a presence on that show as Riker on TNG.

    Worf had a last minute romance with Troi in TNG as well, but just like Chakotay there is more reason to bring him back than just that aspect.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
  7. Filker

    Filker Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    They literally had to invent Travis Mayweather so that Chakotay wouldn't be the worst Star Trek character. Travis fucking Mayweather.

    Riker is infinitely more charming and compelling than Chakotay; there's a reason that the TNG crew were a ratings juggernaut.

    Worf/Troi was a small creative misfire that did no damage at all to either Troi or Worf. Seven/Chakotay basically told us that the culmination of Seven's journey to humanity was to serve as the housewife of a man nineteen years her senior.

    Gawd, I'm so glad that PIC happened.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
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  8. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think anyone would have to ignore a lot of years of Seven's stories to take that message away from Voyager just because they tried a romance at the end.
     
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  9. ThreeEdgedSword

    ThreeEdgedSword Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Even if you think Chakotay was a compelling character, there is no reason for him to appear on Picard (except for that horrible and presumably short-lived attempt at romance with Seven) to bring him back. Not more than, say, Torres or Kim or Jake Sisko. Certainly less than the Doctor, Naomi, Janeway, hell, even Neelix.

    I think Kira, Odo and Garak are fantastic characters; doen't mean there is an ugent reason they should be on PIC.

    I would like to see or hear more of Seven's backstory outside of the horrible Bedazzled/ Icheb stuff, and also how she drifted apart with her Voager friends (?), but certainly not about the first one or two years.
    If you show this - and basically, only this - as the end of her arc, yes, that is pretty much what you suggest. They could have easily shown other stuff - connecting with long-lost relatives, scoring or being interested in a job at Daystrom - anything, but they didn't. Seven's great "accomplishment" and perfection of her "humanity"was finding "love" with Chuckles. Barf.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
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  10. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Why have an issue with Seven and then not with Troi? In the ultimate conclusion of the show All Good Things they literally kill Troi off in the future and use it as a conflict point for two male characters romantic interest. They didnt show her in command or moving up or anything. I'm saying it's odd to focus on these things for either character because both of these characters had a lot more going on.

    They have a good reason to bring back any Maquis character and contrast it with the Fenris rangers, if done right that would be a good source for stories.
     
  11. ThreeEdgedSword

    ThreeEdgedSword Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    What does this have to do with Troi's appearance in PIC?
    If they decide to show more of the Fenris rangers, I don't think they need the Maquis as a foil. They have a lot going on in their 10 episodes, if s1 is any indication. And even if many people seem to think those two groups are very similar, they are not. The Maquis were a terrorist group (or freedom fighters if you prefer that) fighting the Cadassians and the Federation for their agreements with said Cardassians. The Rangers are a group who try to bring law and order to a lawless sector.

    But if they want to - fine, bring on Ro, Torres... did Eddington survive? Tom Riker maybe... lots of Maquis if you really feel you need them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
  12. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I dont know what you're asking since I have no issue with Troi in PIC. My comment was responding to blasting Voyager's message about Seven in the broader context of crossing Voyager characters in the show in the future.
     
  13. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Commodore Commodore

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    Well if you want to show the old maquis as rangers.. Chacotay, bl'ana, maybe even Tom. Have there kid Miral in the rangers instead of Starfleet.
    But its not like a later series has to check up on old characters. Sure there is some that would like to know but we still don't know what happened with Uhura, Chekhov, sulu etc.
     
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  14. Filker

    Filker Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Did Troi have literal fricking brain surgery so that she could be the Stepford Wife of a guy two decades older than she? Chakotay/Seven was utterly, ungodly ghoulish. Yeah, it’s a pity Troi was killed for Worf and Riker drama, but at least she was allowed to remain the same person she always was.

    And no, the Maquis have nothing to do with the Fenris Rangers. The Fenris Rangers are an aspect of Seven’s character development. She realizes that the Federation is in fact a somewhat sinister civilization, and so she joins the Fenris Rangers to do good in her own flawed, self-destructive way. The Rangers belong to Seven. Nothing to do with the Maquis at all. No need to even mention the Maquis. No point.
     
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  15. ThreeEdgedSword

    ThreeEdgedSword Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Ah!
    In my case, it's because Trek's treatment of other women has nothing to do with this topic. I would discuss these things either in General or the TNG forum.

    However, "What about Troi/ X/ Y") does not impact how I judge Seven's storyline.
     
  16. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :cardie::vulcan::wtf::eek:

    The Federation as evil. Haven't seen that argument in a long time.
     
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  17. ThreeEdgedSword

    ThreeEdgedSword Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    O Gods, I had repressed that little tidbit. Ah yes, because being with Chuckles made her feel so much more than, say, her feelings of utter fear or anger, or love (for Naomi or the Borglings) or anything before that... multiple Chuckgasms.

    Perhaps not sinister, but certainly not helpful for her or the people in the neutral zone.

    That said, I would like to know if maybe Seven's recepton in the Federation wasn't quite as nice as Janeway seemed to think. It was right after a devastating war; did Starfleet maybe try to exploit her, or even convict her for Borg crimes... That would surely have driven her away and is, to me, far more interesting.

    ETA: Chuckle's age is the very least of my issues, I don't think I'd mind that if everything else was ok with that storyline... as opposed to nothing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
  18. Filker

    Filker Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Lol, ain’t no one here saying the Federation is evil. PIC is questioning the entire notion of ‘utopia’, in the grand tradition of DS9, which is great. The Federation is an expansionist, homogenizing force. Always has been.
     
  19. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Sinister doesn't mean evil? O_o
     
  20. Filker

    Filker Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Are you kidding? No, it doesn’t.