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VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

Now that Treklit is cohesive there is the expectation that it will be a canon within itself.

Nope. The "Crucible" trilogy and "Children of Kings" happily cherrypicked what bits of current TrekLit they wished to ignore.

David Mack said the other day he did not attempt to use the "New Frontier: Turnabout" IDW mini-series when pulling all the Mirror Universe storylines together for a novel finale, "Rise Like Lions".
 
We got it easy in Trek land, canon is simple with only a couple grey areas thanks to Roddenberry's apocrypha pronouncements. In SW there are canon layers.

George Lucas himself considers only the Star Wars movies and the Clone Wars cartoons to be canon. The Star Wars EU canon appears to be a marketing ploy, and in reality no more binding on the tv/movie SW canon than in Trek.

George Lucas said:
I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions.

The fans have made it considerably more complicated than that:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon#Canon_in_the_Holocron_continuity_database

Synopsis:

G-canon: The latest versions of the six movies
T-canon: The CGI Clone Wars movie and TV series and the unproduced live-action TV series
C-canon: most of the modern (i.e. 1991 onwards) EU
S-canon: older EU that may be ignored by current authors
N-canon: non-canon, including deliberately hypothetical stories, etc.

Now that Treklit is cohesive there is the expectation that it will be a canon within itself. If someone writes a novel in which Janeway is alive set post B.D. with no reference to how this came to be it will cause a Treklit canon problem. Fans won't expect the novels to be taken into account if there is another tv show though, unlike the Clone Wars debates.

A quote from a SW friend of mine:

"The biggest problem is that fans get invested in details in the EU which are part of C-canon (but not T- or G-canon) and so technically are part of the SW continuity, at least from an EU POV. When T-canon alters a bit of EU continuity (such as the nature of the planet Ryloth) suddenly a fact in C-canon that has existed since the late '80s (IIRC) gets retconned away, causing much distress.

The truth is that C-canon is pretty unstable ATM, given that over seven hours of new superior-canon material is being produced per year, which is about 10 times more than when the prequels were in full swing. The EU voluntarily gives The Clone Wars unilateral power to alter EU continuity as it sees fit, but EU fans place the onus on Lucas and Filoni to refrain from using that power--it's totally backwards. In any case, the EU continuity is now in the position of being totally untrustworthy even in respect to itself, since anything could be rewritten from above at any moment, shattering the illusion of a cohesive universe."

Lucas also drew a direct parallel to Roddenberry's simple solution of if it's on screen it's canon and if it's in a book it's not canon, see this Lucas quote:

""There's three pillars: the father, the son and the holy ghost. I'm the father, Howard Roffman [president of Lucas Licensing] is the son and the holy ghost is the fans, this kind of ethereal world of people coming up with all kinds of different ideas and histories. Now these three different pillars don't always match, but the movies and TV shows are all under my control and they are consistent within themselves. Howard tries to be consistent but sometimes he goes off on tangents and it's hard to hold him back. He once said to me that there are two Star Trek universes: there's the TV show and then there's all the spin-offs. He said that these were completely different and didn't have anything to do with each other. So I said, 'OK, go ahead.'""

But it seems fans have a deeply vested interest in EU.

JJ really set himself free of it ever ending up like that in Trekland in bypassing the timeline of both onscreen and in books, LOL.

Anyway sorry for this SW interruption, hope someone found it interesting.

Then we are indeed fortunate that (bar any possible utterances of Spock Prime) Trek Prime is to all intents and purposes done...
 
The fans have made it considerably more complicated than that:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon#Canon_in_the_Holocron_continuity_database

Synopsis:

G-canon: The latest versions of the six movies
T-canon: The CGI Clone Wars movie and TV series and the unproduced live-action TV series
C-canon: most of the modern (i.e. 1991 onwards) EU
S-canon: older EU that may be ignored by current authors
N-canon: non-canon, including deliberately hypothetical stories, etc....Snip
Dang, and I thought complicated Time Travel Stories could be headache inducing, LOL.
 
Now that Treklit is cohesive there is the expectation that it will be a canon within itself.

Nope. The "Crucible" trilogy and "Children of Kings" happily cherrypicked what bits of current TrekLit they wished to ignore.

David Mack said the other day he did not attempt to use the "New Frontier: Turnabout" IDW mini-series when pulling all the Mirror Universe storylines together for a novel finale, "Rise Like Lions".

Well that's interesting. Still much of the relaunch is cohesive.
 
I consider "Prime Trek" as the real Trek. I consider the Reboot Trek as a sad example of the declining standard of todays TV and movie entertainment where there are no new ideas, only old stuff with a layer of doom and gloom over it.

Personally I'm happy that NCIS is still going strong. :techman:
 
^^
Sorry, I have to disagree here.

The movie wasn't that bad actually. It had it's good parts and the actors were OK (if we don't mention the fact that the Kirk in the movie looks like an old school buddy which always makes me say "Look, there is Thomas" everytime a picture of the guy shows up). :)

What I didn't like was the messing with established Trek things (like the destruction of well-known planets) and that those dabblings will set the standard for coming Trek events.

As for movies, the best Trek movie is "Star Trek II-The Wrath Of Khan".

Otherwise I think that Trek is better on TV than in the movies.
 
I agree it is better on tv.

My favorite Trek movies would be..

1. ST:XI
2. TUC
3. FC


That would be the top 3 in order of preference. And what a shame there is no VOY movie to add to that list!
 
ST: TMP and JJ's 2009 movie tie for my favourite film of all time. For me, they both had a magical, immersive quality. I was totally absorbed by the experience of watching them on the big screen.
 
Sorry, but I can't see how killing of the main character of the show and omitting three others will create "a stronger, higher-profile relaunch".

Omitting which three others? Tuvok is currently busy on Titan, and Neelix is off raising a family, but I can't think of any other major VOY characters who could be in the latest relaunch books but aren't. (Actually, Neelix does make an appearance in Unworthy.)

It's not much different than the DS9 relaunch which is also "missing" a few of the show's characters due to the fact that they moved on at the end of the show.

By the way, unless you've read them you are not in a position to comment on the strength of the latest relaunch offerings.

Now that Treklit is cohesive there is the expectation that it will be a canon within itself.

Nope. The "Crucible" trilogy and "Children of Kings" happily cherrypicked what bits of current TrekLit they wished to ignore.

David Mack said the other day he did not attempt to use the "New Frontier: Turnabout" IDW mini-series when pulling all the Mirror Universe storylines together for a novel finale, "Rise Like Lions".

Honestly, the only difference between how Star Wars does things and how Star Trek does things these days is that in SW there is an expectation that the vast majority of books will slot into the unified continuity (as best they can given the overwrites-from-above mentioned). With Star Trek, it's more or less up to the author and editor whether or not they want to do that. They have that option but not the constraint.
 
^^
Janeway, Kes, Tuvok and Neelix are missing. No fun reading without them.

I must admit that I really miss the good, old Star Trek. All series are down, what we got now is Abramsverse which isn't really to my taste. And the books about the 24th century has taken a direction which is not to my taste either.

So it's a bit empty.

I guess I have to read "The Black Shore" again. Or some other masterpiece among the 19 first Voyager books.
 
^^
Janeway, Kes, Tuvok and Neelix are missing. No fun reading without them.

I must admit that I really miss the good, old Star Trek. All series are down, what we got now is Abramsverse which isn't really to my taste. And the books about the 24th century has taken a direction which is not to my taste either.

So it's a bit empty.

I guess I have to read "The Black Shore" again. Or some other masterpiece among the 19 first Voyager books.

I understand completely. I'm ready for some good old Trek.
 
^^
Janeway, Kes, Tuvok and Neelix are missing. No fun reading without them.

I must admit that I really miss the good, old Star Trek. All series are down, what we got now is Abramsverse which isn't really to my taste. And the books about the 24th century has taken a direction which is not to my taste either.

So it's a bit empty.

I guess I have to read "The Black Shore" again. Or some other masterpiece among the 19 first Voyager books.

Kes was written out of the show. Nothing to do with Treklit. In fact, a version of her is in Rise Like Lions - be grateful !

Tuvok not missing, he is in Titan. By all means read those books - they're pretty good.

Neelix is in the Beyer novels.

Janeway is indeed missing...

And there's not much fun in the 'toys back in the box at the end' numbered novels !
 
^^
Janeway, Kes, Tuvok and Neelix are missing. No fun reading without them.

I must admit that I really miss the good, old Star Trek. All series are down, what we got now is Abramsverse which isn't really to my taste. And the books about the 24th century has taken a direction which is not to my taste either.

So it's a bit empty.

I guess I have to read "The Black Shore" again. Or some other masterpiece among the 19 first Voyager books.

Kes was written out of the show. Nothing to do with Treklit. In fact, a version of her is in Rise Like Lions - be grateful !

Tuvok not missing, he is in Titan. By all means read those books - they're pretty good.

Neelix is in the Beyer novels.

Janeway is indeed missing...

And there's not much fun in the 'toys back in the box at the end' numbered novels !

Oh, I really love the seasons 1-3 Voyager books! :techman:

As for Rise Like Lions, please tell me more about it. I might read it, but not if there are any "Fury"-scenario crap in it.

As for the current books, well I would rather see Tuvok on Voyager and what I know, Neelix's appearance in the recent Voyager books is only a "guest appearance", not to mention the fact that Janeway is still missing.
 
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