My copy won't arrive until tomorrow for some reason, but I'm at least going to read the first chapter on Amazon.
Spoilers VOY: A Pocket Full Of Lies By Kirsten Beyer Review Thread
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I just had a quick question regarding this book: throughout, both Tom Paris and B'Elanna Torres were referred to in text and by the other characters as Commander, never as Lieutenant Commander, while other characters, such as Atlee Fife, were at least once specified as a Lieutenant Commander. Did either Tom or B'Elanna or both of them get promoted in this book or the last one and I missed it?
I just had a quick question regarding this book: throughout, both Tom Paris and B'Elanna Torres were referred to in text and by the other characters as Commander, never as Lieutenant Commander, while other characters, such as Atlee Fife, were at least once specified as a Lieutenant Commander. Did either Tom or B'Elanna or both of them get promoted in this book or the last one and I missed it?
I honestly can't remember either way offhand, but keep in mind there was somewhere between a month and a half and two months between the end of Atonement and the start of this one in-universe; it could easily have gone in that gap instead.
Good evening all,
Usually I spend the first few days after a book comes out waiting for folks to have a chance to read it and begin to share their thoughts. I guess the fact that this one was in stores early in some places means we're past that point now. Thanks, as always, to all who are coming in to take part in the discussion.
Hi Ryan,
Sorry for not getting back to this before. As always, I wasn't terribly specific on purpose. That said, "off the beaten track" would definitely be a good description for what I had in mind. Basically I remember thinking at least 10,000 light years from the path Voyager was taking home, in a direction they never explored....so, remote, even for the Delta Quadrant....and the only thing really making it accessible at all for any of the better known species is the Gateway that makes that distance easy to travel, if the Confederacy likes you, of course. Southern and eastern third...I'm not sure how to visualize that...just as long as we are nowhere near the Beta Quadrant, I'm fine with wherever you want to imagine it.
You are very kind. I'm glad the story worked so well for you.
Awww...thanks!
I feel the same way about you guys. Thanks so much!
Well....let's see.
Coming up with the general ideas never takes long. Working out the details takes a lot longer. Some of that work happens in the outline phase, which can be anywhere from one to three months. The rest takes place when I am working through the manuscript and realizing that the outline just isn't going to work in some areas and revisions happen on the spot. Typical length of time to finish a manuscript is three to four months.
As for the choice to combine those stories....it all really started when I saw Shattered...and this was years ago, obviously, but by then I had been pitching to the producers for a few years and always watched the new episodes with an eye toward figuring out of there was anything I might want to do with them in terms of follow-up.
The first time I saw that scene near the end of the show where Janeway is back on the bridge waiting for Chakotay to do the "lightening rod" thing, and I saw that white light begin to wash over her as she sat in the center seat, I wondered if the ending was going to work out the way they had planned. Because something about that effect made me think that something other than a simple restoration of the timeline had happened to Kathryn in that moment.
That was all it was, really. Faint misgivings...an odd moment that sticks somewhere in your head...a little "hmmmm" and then you move on with your life.
Years later, when I was developing material between Fusion and Full Circle, it occurred to me that since we never really saw what caused the anomaly in the first place, there was no reason why something else might not have happened to Janeway in that moment. I went back and re-watched a couple of times to make sure what I was considering tracked, and it did. And somehow, a little later, when I was wondering if we might ever revisit the Krenim and how that might happen...the "Shattered" story fit so perfectly with it, from that point on, the two were always one for me. That's the story of the "other" Kathryn Janeway I refer to in the notes at the end that has been pestering me for years. It all came together in my head so long ago, but with the direction we were taking the books with the fleet, etc., it just didn't ever feel like I would be able to use it.
And then I realized that we could. So with Margaret's blessing, I did. And here we are.
Usually, officers of the rank of both Commander and Lieutenant Commander are referred to just as "Commander." It's a stylistic choice that is common across the books. In a similar way, Vice Admiral Janeway is usually just referred to as Admiral Janeway. Nobody got a promotion. It's just how ranks are referenced.
Sometimes I will make a point of indicating in text that someone is a Lieutenant Commander or Vice Admiral...usually only once and usually the first time or one of the first times they are introduced in the text. After that, I shorthand their ranks and allow the characters to do the same in dialogue. If you see the full rank used later than that, I am probably trying to highlight that for some story-related reason. Or it just sounded better in context.
Again....I am thrilled with the early responses to the book. Keep 'em coming and I will get in here as often as I can to answer questions.
Best,
KMFB
Usually I spend the first few days after a book comes out waiting for folks to have a chance to read it and begin to share their thoughts. I guess the fact that this one was in stores early in some places means we're past that point now. Thanks, as always, to all who are coming in to take part in the discussion.
Hi Ryan,
Sorry for not getting back to this before. As always, I wasn't terribly specific on purpose. That said, "off the beaten track" would definitely be a good description for what I had in mind. Basically I remember thinking at least 10,000 light years from the path Voyager was taking home, in a direction they never explored....so, remote, even for the Delta Quadrant....and the only thing really making it accessible at all for any of the better known species is the Gateway that makes that distance easy to travel, if the Confederacy likes you, of course. Southern and eastern third...I'm not sure how to visualize that...just as long as we are nowhere near the Beta Quadrant, I'm fine with wherever you want to imagine it.
You are very kind. I'm glad the story worked so well for you.
Awww...thanks!
Just finished it, and totally loved it. Kirsten's fantastic run on the Voyager relaunch has been the highlight of my treklit reading 'career'. It even got me watching the show on Netflix once again. I hope we get tons more Voyager from her in the future. We are so lucky to have her
I feel the same way about you guys. Thanks so much!
Well....let's see.
Coming up with the general ideas never takes long. Working out the details takes a lot longer. Some of that work happens in the outline phase, which can be anywhere from one to three months. The rest takes place when I am working through the manuscript and realizing that the outline just isn't going to work in some areas and revisions happen on the spot. Typical length of time to finish a manuscript is three to four months.
As for the choice to combine those stories....it all really started when I saw Shattered...and this was years ago, obviously, but by then I had been pitching to the producers for a few years and always watched the new episodes with an eye toward figuring out of there was anything I might want to do with them in terms of follow-up.
The first time I saw that scene near the end of the show where Janeway is back on the bridge waiting for Chakotay to do the "lightening rod" thing, and I saw that white light begin to wash over her as she sat in the center seat, I wondered if the ending was going to work out the way they had planned. Because something about that effect made me think that something other than a simple restoration of the timeline had happened to Kathryn in that moment.
That was all it was, really. Faint misgivings...an odd moment that sticks somewhere in your head...a little "hmmmm" and then you move on with your life.
Years later, when I was developing material between Fusion and Full Circle, it occurred to me that since we never really saw what caused the anomaly in the first place, there was no reason why something else might not have happened to Janeway in that moment. I went back and re-watched a couple of times to make sure what I was considering tracked, and it did. And somehow, a little later, when I was wondering if we might ever revisit the Krenim and how that might happen...the "Shattered" story fit so perfectly with it, from that point on, the two were always one for me. That's the story of the "other" Kathryn Janeway I refer to in the notes at the end that has been pestering me for years. It all came together in my head so long ago, but with the direction we were taking the books with the fleet, etc., it just didn't ever feel like I would be able to use it.
And then I realized that we could. So with Margaret's blessing, I did. And here we are.
Usually, officers of the rank of both Commander and Lieutenant Commander are referred to just as "Commander." It's a stylistic choice that is common across the books. In a similar way, Vice Admiral Janeway is usually just referred to as Admiral Janeway. Nobody got a promotion. It's just how ranks are referenced.
Sometimes I will make a point of indicating in text that someone is a Lieutenant Commander or Vice Admiral...usually only once and usually the first time or one of the first times they are introduced in the text. After that, I shorthand their ranks and allow the characters to do the same in dialogue. If you see the full rank used later than that, I am probably trying to highlight that for some story-related reason. Or it just sounded better in context.
Again....I am thrilled with the early responses to the book. Keep 'em coming and I will get in here as often as I can to answer questions.
Best,
KMFB
Really enjoyed this - not perfect as towards the end I thought the temporal mechanics swamped the character stories but generally very strong.
One thing that Beyer does so well is make you frustrated by the characters at times but when you understand what is motivating them then it all makes sense. Both O'Donnell , due to his treatment of Icheb and Conlon annoyed me greatly in this book at times but when everything came clear you could understand and sympathise with their positions.
And speaking of Icheb, how great is he in this book! Beyer takes a character I'd always been indifferent to and makes him my highlight. I was waiting eagerly for his every appearance - love his friendship with Phinn and looking forward to seeing that develop in the future. It was also nice to see the Doctor understand his issues and challenge Seven's more black and white view of the world.
Paris & Torres take a back seat here which is fine but hope to see more of them in the next books and hopefully a more confident Torres after her understandable doubts here - she's always more fun when she's sure of herself. On the other side of that as much as I love her I hope Janeway fades a bit into the background next time round - she's been the dominating force of the last few books so it would be nice to share that around a bit.
It was good to see some variation of setting as well - most of the Voyager books have been quite spacebound so it was nice to get some time on a planet and some more physical action.
Hope to be getting more Voyager books from Ms Beyer going forward.
One thing that Beyer does so well is make you frustrated by the characters at times but when you understand what is motivating them then it all makes sense. Both O'Donnell , due to his treatment of Icheb and Conlon annoyed me greatly in this book at times but when everything came clear you could understand and sympathise with their positions.
And speaking of Icheb, how great is he in this book! Beyer takes a character I'd always been indifferent to and makes him my highlight. I was waiting eagerly for his every appearance - love his friendship with Phinn and looking forward to seeing that develop in the future. It was also nice to see the Doctor understand his issues and challenge Seven's more black and white view of the world.
Paris & Torres take a back seat here which is fine but hope to see more of them in the next books and hopefully a more confident Torres after her understandable doubts here - she's always more fun when she's sure of herself. On the other side of that as much as I love her I hope Janeway fades a bit into the background next time round - she's been the dominating force of the last few books so it would be nice to share that around a bit.
It was good to see some variation of setting as well - most of the Voyager books have been quite spacebound so it was nice to get some time on a planet and some more physical action.
Hope to be getting more Voyager books from Ms Beyer going forward.
I'm about a third of the way through and loving it! But that's no surprise... I have loved every one of Kirsten Beyer's Voyager books. A few of the developments have kind of caught me off guard and I'm not quite sure what I think of them at this point, so I'm eager to see how it all comes together. But I've definitely been pulled into the storyline... I keep wanting to flip forward to know what happens next, but at the same time I don't want it to end because I know it will likely be a long wait before the next book. (Speaking of which, do we know anything about upcoming books... last I knew, I think she said she had signed on for two more books, but they were still in the early planning stages...?)
Shattered is high up in my list of favorite Voyager episodes, so to say I was delighted to have that connection in this book would be an understatement. I hadn't expected it at all and though I'm still a little fuzzy on the details of how it worked out (timelines and resetting time and all that is always a bit baffling to me, so usually I just go along with it), I like the way she has connected these various episodes and brought them into this book. I enjoyed reading her comment about the backstory of how she thought to bring these episodes together and I'm glad that she had the opportunity to tell this story!
I'm not currently a fan of Nancy's story... While I love the follow up and seeing results from the previous events, and I love seeing Nancy get some focus, I wasn't expecting the erratic behavior from her. I guess it makes sense, but at the same time it seems a bit forced and bizarre. But maybe that's how it's supposed to feel at this point.
Loved seeing Tom and B'Elanna and their growing family. It's nice seeing them content and happy for a change. I think Michael Owen is a very fitting name. It seems the kind of name they would pick, and I think "Miral and Michael" sounds natural as the names for their children.
And having Tuvok back was a welcome surprise, too. I hadn't realized how much I'd missed him. I don't like the dark place he's in... Seems out of character for a disciplined Vulcan like Tuvok to be reacting in such a human way to a tragic loss of a loved one. I get that Vulcan emotions run deep, but it just feels extreme to me. Though I haven't read the Titan books, so perhaps there is more backstory than I am currently aware of. Hoping that we see more of the old Tuvok as this story continues and, hopefully, events help him heal and move on.
As always, the characters are a highlight of these books for me. So many of the characters, old and new, feel like old friends. At this point, Kirsten has mastered their individual voices and personalities so that each section from different perspectives is unique and identifiable. I love coming back to these favorite characters and seeing their stories progress, watching them grow, seeing them interact with each other and build relationships, etc.
Looking forward to seeing where things go from here, but so far it looks like Kirsten has hit another one out of the park with this book!
Shattered is high up in my list of favorite Voyager episodes, so to say I was delighted to have that connection in this book would be an understatement. I hadn't expected it at all and though I'm still a little fuzzy on the details of how it worked out (timelines and resetting time and all that is always a bit baffling to me, so usually I just go along with it), I like the way she has connected these various episodes and brought them into this book. I enjoyed reading her comment about the backstory of how she thought to bring these episodes together and I'm glad that she had the opportunity to tell this story!
I'm not currently a fan of Nancy's story... While I love the follow up and seeing results from the previous events, and I love seeing Nancy get some focus, I wasn't expecting the erratic behavior from her. I guess it makes sense, but at the same time it seems a bit forced and bizarre. But maybe that's how it's supposed to feel at this point.
Loved seeing Tom and B'Elanna and their growing family. It's nice seeing them content and happy for a change. I think Michael Owen is a very fitting name. It seems the kind of name they would pick, and I think "Miral and Michael" sounds natural as the names for their children.
And having Tuvok back was a welcome surprise, too. I hadn't realized how much I'd missed him. I don't like the dark place he's in... Seems out of character for a disciplined Vulcan like Tuvok to be reacting in such a human way to a tragic loss of a loved one. I get that Vulcan emotions run deep, but it just feels extreme to me. Though I haven't read the Titan books, so perhaps there is more backstory than I am currently aware of. Hoping that we see more of the old Tuvok as this story continues and, hopefully, events help him heal and move on.
As always, the characters are a highlight of these books for me. So many of the characters, old and new, feel like old friends. At this point, Kirsten has mastered their individual voices and personalities so that each section from different perspectives is unique and identifiable. I love coming back to these favorite characters and seeing their stories progress, watching them grow, seeing them interact with each other and build relationships, etc.
Looking forward to seeing where things go from here, but so far it looks like Kirsten has hit another one out of the park with this book!
Okay, thank you for the clarification. Since I didn't see anything specified (not to mention in Atonement, another character did get promoted for helping Tom while in the Alpha Quadrant), I wasn't sure if he'd gotten his own promotion.
Also, along the same lines (and going back a few books), was Admiral Batiste a full four-star admiral, or was he one of the lower tiers? Considering he was subordinate to Admiral Montgomery (who, at least implicitly, was a four-star, given he was Vice Admiral Janeway's immediate superior, and subordinate himself to Fleet Admiral Akaar) and his replacement, Afsarah Eden, was a Captain, and Janeway is a Vice Admiral, I was wondering if you had a specific grade in mind for Batiste. (The one thing about TV/film over books, you can always tell an Admiral's (or other ranks such as Commander) grade by their collar or sleeve insignia.)
I know Christopher referenced something from "A Less Perfect Union" that happened before the split-point (the Ramatis Choral Debates at Babel in the 18th century) in "Tower of Babel", and his own Myriad Universe entry specifically crossed over with both the "Year of Hell" timeline and the Prime timeline.
Well my nitpick is this(if you haven't read it don't click the spoiler)
Q says at the end that Denzit Janeway was the only one of the Janeways who ever conceived a child. Which is why he chose her as his redemption and forgiving of the Admiral for losing his son. But in the Myriad story "Places of Exile" Janeway also had a child.
Thanks for the reply Kirsten, as always. I also seem to remember at some point it was stated that the First World was 40,000 lyrs from the nearest of the subspace relays, or it might have been 40,000 lyrs from New Talax. I think that was the tidbit that really informed my impression of where it was located. The book Star Trek Star Charts really informs my imaginings of the geography of the Delta Quadrant. Have you seen that book, and do you use it when picturing the distances you're writing about?
Finished it. What a ride. Loved the ending because it was so unexpected. I had resigned myself to the old tired 'reset button' but Kirsten surprised us. I enjoy how the episodes from the show are tied together with the new adventures.
Before this my favorite of the Re-launch stories was probably Unworthy but this one is right up there beside it.
Question. Is this the end of the first year of the mission in the Delta Quadrant? I've lost track of the time.
Before this my favorite of the Re-launch stories was probably Unworthy but this one is right up there beside it.
Question. Is this the end of the first year of the mission in the Delta Quadrant? I've lost track of the time.
Just started it. Seems like the usual DQ problems.
I finally finished the novel and I can only repeat what I already wrote: Outstanding!
And you were right when you announced in the "Atonement" thread that this novel would even be darker than Atonement. It definitely was. And there is still so much unfinished business between Conlon/Kim and Janeway/Chakotay. I really can't wait for the next novel. Will it be out this year? Or 2017? (Can't be soon enough, if you ask me, but I am sure you have to set up the plot first..)
I loved that you brought back Tuvok, though I couldn't see him in some of his actions. When he called the Admiral "Kathryn" in the end I really wondered if this was something he would do. But in the end you know the characters a lot better than I do.
I liked the fact that the Krenim indeed did learn nothing from Annorax and that they still can't be trusted. I wouldn't mind if they came back somewhen. And what a twist to bring in Q(uinn) and his wife. This was indeed unexpected.
Thank you for another great novel!
Oh, and I just read your "acknowledgements": It's hard to write something that's better or more groundshaking than the Destiny trilogy, but it's good that Mack keeps you on your toes. If it is this or him who makes your novels so good than I just sent a short "thank you" to Mack. He had the chance to eradicate the Borg, this is a once in a lifetime book to write. So this can't be compared anyway. (His other books are great as well, of course.)
And you were right when you announced in the "Atonement" thread that this novel would even be darker than Atonement. It definitely was. And there is still so much unfinished business between Conlon/Kim and Janeway/Chakotay. I really can't wait for the next novel. Will it be out this year? Or 2017? (Can't be soon enough, if you ask me, but I am sure you have to set up the plot first..)
I loved that you brought back Tuvok, though I couldn't see him in some of his actions. When he called the Admiral "Kathryn" in the end I really wondered if this was something he would do. But in the end you know the characters a lot better than I do.
I liked the fact that the Krenim indeed did learn nothing from Annorax and that they still can't be trusted. I wouldn't mind if they came back somewhen. And what a twist to bring in Q(uinn) and his wife. This was indeed unexpected.
Thank you for another great novel!
Oh, and I just read your "acknowledgements": It's hard to write something that's better or more groundshaking than the Destiny trilogy, but it's good that Mack keeps you on your toes. If it is this or him who makes your novels so good than I just sent a short "thank you" to Mack. He had the chance to eradicate the Borg, this is a once in a lifetime book to write. So this can't be compared anyway. (His other books are great as well, of course.)
Ooops should have skipped the post about Tuvok, unless he is a duplicate of the one on Titan.
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