Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg!!!

[LightningStorm]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

An editorial issue to be sure, however PD is not completely free of "blame" here. He knew his book was preceded by another and didn't bother to ask more questions or even directly contact KRAD while working on his own. While the editor should definitely be asked "What exactly happened here?" PD is the one whose name is on the book and is the one ultimately responsible for its quality.

I'm just hoping Greater Than the Sum retcons all of the events of Before Dishonor to some wacky alternate universe or better yet, The Holodeck! (I know it won't happen, but one can dream.)

 

[ClayinCA]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Well, I didn't have the hate for Before Dishonor that many around here had, even though I didn't especially enjoy it. I will say that it's made me that much more eager for Greater Than the Sum, since I have yet to read anything by Christopher that I haven't liked (then again, that used to be true of Peter David, too).

 

[donners22]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Poor PAD seems to be copping a bit of flack lately, first over the Harlan Ellison situation (which was just silly) and now this.

I'm still yet to get a copy of this book, but I will note that I was left feeling very cold by two of his recent novels - I, Q and the third Sir Apropos novel. He's just getting really quite depressing in some of his writing, and it's a far cry from the fun of earlier books like Imzadi and Q-Squared.

I had high hopes for this book originally, but will go in with some trepidation.

 

[JD]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Harlan Ellison situation?

 

[Dancing Doctor]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

^Is it the one where he threatened to sue over the Crucible trilogy? Because that's the only thing that comes to mind.

I don't know how much blame goes to the editors at Pocket Books. On one hand, they are the supervising authority, and presumably have final say on anything that gets published. However, I'm also presuming that the writers have a fair amount of leeway, and that at some point the trust factor comes in.

*shrug* (I've been doing this a lot, I now realize).

All I know is that I'm going to be a bit wary of any new Peter David books coming out, and possibly the newer Trek books.

 

[JD]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

^You shouldn't be worried about all new Trek books just because you didn't like BD. I'm 2XX pages into Sword of Damocles and so far it has been awsome, definitely better than BD.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

^I know. It's just I know that I'm going to feel some trepidation whenever I walk into the bookstore and look at the new offerings-at least for a little while.

 

[jezor]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Well, I read this one today in one sitting, and my reaction was...odd. To me, it was like those times I've ventured to eat Indian food: unusual, a bit strange, but generally interesting and somewhat satsifying. The one thing I did like about it was:

Spoiler: The fate of one major character

the apparent death of Janeway. She's a character I never liked, and her post-VOY appearances have made her even more annoying.

The mutiny plotline was a bit odd, but actually made sense, given how off-the-track Picard was going, and how it would appear to new officers who did not have the benefit of serving with him for so many years. I also liked the appearance of Spock.

All in all, mixed but more positive than not. {ProfJonathan}

 

[JD]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

jezor said:

The mutiny plotline was a bit odd, but actually made sense, given how off-the-track Picard was going, and how it would appear to new officers who did not have the benefit of serving with him for so many years.

Yeah, but Miranda had served on the D long enough for Data to decide that she should replace him at the conn, so she can't really be called a "new officer".

 

[DaveR]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Vixen said:
^Is it the one where he threatened to sue over the Crucible trilogy? Because that's the only thing that comes to mind.

That's David R. George III. Not Peter David.

Dave

 

[David cgc]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Vixen said:
^Is it the one where he threatened to sue over the Crucible trilogy? Because that's the only thing that comes to mind.

No, the other, more recent Ellison situation.

Long story short, Peter David mentioned to Harlan Ellison that there were rumors on the internet that the Guardian of Forever would be used in the next Star Trek movie. Ellison went on an on-line rant just like the Crucible one, demanding that he be paid for the work he's bitched for years about not having done (particularly memorable was when he referred to the relevant fictional objects as they appeared in the original script. One wonders how he expects to be paid for the used of a stone donut called the Guardian of Forever when he describes what he owns as a series of statues called the Guardians of Forever). Eventually, Ellison found out from the producers that the Guardian of Forever was not, in fact, in the movie. He then blamed the internet for allowing any jackasses to make up a rumor and spread it around, cognitively disassociating from the fact that his uncharacteristic credulity and subsequent on-line rant made him one of the internet rumor-spreaders he excoriated.

Some people blamed PAD for telling his buddy about the rumor, on account that he should've damned well known exactly what was going to happen. If you've seen Babylon 5, then in their eyes, PAD was the guy in the fifth season who kept telling Garibaldi when Bester was visiting, despite the fact that it would only upset him and cause a scene.

 

[wizkid]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Anubis said:
What went so wrong here? I hear nothing but bad things about this book. I like Peter David as well. Peter, what's wrong!?

The Borg adapting they way they did was a little over the top, even for a Trek fan who believes Kirk, Trip, and the rest have come back from the dead...

 

[Trent Roman]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

David cgc said:
Long story short, Peter David mentioned to Harlan Ellison that there were rumors on the internet that the Guardian of Forever would be used in the next Star Trek movie.

Golly gee, there are rumours on the Internet? If the man wants people to take him and his issues seriously, he should try and show that he has critical judgement slightly better than Jay and Silent Bob.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Dancing Doctor]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

DaveR said:

Vixen said:
^Is it the one where he threatened to sue over the Crucible trilogy? Because that's the only thing that comes to mind.

That's David R. George III. Not Peter David.

Dave

That was the only Harlan Ellison situation that I could think of.

 

[flandry84]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

To be honest,the whole relaunch has been so contrived,the characters so mishandled that personally,I'm treating the whole thing as a bad dream sequence.If Pocket can turn around and tell us that we dreamed the whole Madden thing(and NO this isn't about that) well I wish I could've dreamt up unconvincingly jarring characters like T'lana,Kadahota and whatsisface.

 

[David Mack]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

^ I don't find Miranda Kadohata "jarring" as a character, at all. In fact, I think Keith did a splendid job of breathing life into her, figuratively speaking, and regardless of one's opinion of how she was depicted in Before Dishonor, I feel she is an interesting individual, rich with nuances and contradictions that are worthy of further exploration.

Just my opinion, of course -- as someone who has, in the past six months, written two books in which she plays a significant role...

 

[ClayinCA]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

I look forward to reading those books. I thought the character was very well drawn in Q&A, and I look forward to your handling of that character.

 

[flandry84]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Rereading what I wrote,/\/\/\Perhaps I didn't express myself so well.By "jarring",I meant that the personalities of these characters changed from book to book,(except T'lana who remained consistently annoying).
Perhaps the cosy status quo of TNG needed a shake-up,but the tensions we see now seem contrived,unlike in Vanguard(my new favourite TREK),where every characters motivations feel natural and consistent with what we know about them.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

flandry84 said:
Rereading what I wrote,/\/\/\Perhaps I didn't express myself so well.By "jarring",I meant that the personalities of these characters changed from book to book,(except T'lana who remained consistently annoying).
Perhaps the cosy status quo of TNG needed a shake-up,but the tensions we see now seem contrived,unlike in Vanguard(my new favourite TREK),where every characters motivations feel natural and consistent with what we know about them.

I agree with what flandry said.

Honestly, the only characters who remained in-character were Data (because he's dead), T'Lana, and Geordi. T'Lana only remained in character because she's almost like Elizabeth Shelby in some aspects-thereby making it a little easier for her to remain constant.

I would have expected Kadohata, considering how long she's been on the ship, to have sided with Picard and the "loyal ones", for lack of a better term. Instead, she's going to ally with the mentally challenged Security Chief and the Vulcan with an agenda. *shakes head*

Oh well. I got BA:HOTBFTBFJCAJMPOJCBFOTROWAWRAWAFTPASUPATW today, so it's all good at the moment.

 

[donners22]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Just on the original comment that the Borg were being overused, I think the Lord Soth rule applies here.

For those not familiar with the Dragonlance series, when you have a character who is extremely powerful and "cool" for lack of a better term, it is best to use them sparingly lest they a) take over scenes featuring regular characters and b) lose their "coolness" and the sense of a special event that they are appearing.

To be fair, Voyager has already left the barn door open on that one, but there's no need for the novels to follow the same path.