violence

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

It was violent for TV, and particularly for TREK. But having seen THE HIDDEN six months before, I thought this TV ending was unrealistic-looking. To clarify, I also thought this when I first saw the episode. It looks tackier now, like many outdated effects. Maybe low-budget in comparison to THE HIDDEN as well (that was also low-budget, of course).

 

[Greg Cox]

"Conspiracy" may have been unusual for Trek, but, by 1987, most of us older sf fans had already seen Alien, Aliens, Blade Runner, The Terminator, The Fly (Cronenberg version), Scanners, and John Carpenter's The Thing.

I can't say I found "Conspiracy" all that shocking at the time.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Yeah, I thought that "Conspiracy" was just TNG me-too-ing it.

 

[Khan 2.0]

Oh yeah Blade Runner... I forgot that's why Khan crushed Marcus' head like that

 

[CorporalClegg]

As recurring baddies, the "Conspiracy" buggers would have been better than the Borg. The Borg are best as a one-off.

Or rather a one-off in a sci-fi action thriller film. *cough*

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

"Conspiracy" may have been unusual for Trek, but, by 1987, most of us older sf fans had already seen Alien, Aliens, Blade Runner, The Terminator, The Fly (Cronenberg version), Scanners, and John Carpenter's The Thing.

I can't say I found "Conspiracy" all that shocking at the time.

Agreed--it was not shocking when watching it first-run.

Before this TNG episode (1988), fantasy audiences had lived through two decades (nearly) of beasts invading/infesting human bodies: from Squirm, Creepshow, TWOK's Ceti eels to the films you mentioned, by the time Conspiracy rolled around, the reaction was more about how bad the FX were, rather than shock at the gore / violence.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

"Conspiracy" may have been unusual for Trek, but, by 1987, most of us older sf fans had already seen Alien, Aliens, Blade Runner, The Terminator, The Fly (Cronenberg version), Scanners, and John Carpenter's The Thing.

I can't say I found "Conspiracy" all that shocking at the time.

Agreed--it was not shocking when watching it first-run.

Before this TNG episode (1988), fantasy audiences had lived through two decades (nearly) of beasts invading/infesting human bodies: from Squirm, Creepshow, TWOK's Ceti eels to the films you mentioned, by the time Conspiracy rolled around, the reaction was more about how bad the FX were, rather than shock at the gore / violence.

It sure shocked me when I first saw it....and I thought that topped TWOK eel scene (which scared me when I first saw that particular scene)...

I remember constantly looking on the ground to see if anything pinkish was crawling nearby....

Also, I was no stranger to actual fantasy like The Dark Crystal, which had it's own weird monsters...as well as horror such as the aforementioned Squirm (which I saw bits of before that Trek episode) or Creepshow, which I also saw bits of.

For me, the effects did its job.

 

[austen_pierce]

In some ways, I think of TWOK as a horror movie. There's definitely the creep factor, plenty of suspense, and a fair amount of blood and gore. I miss that. It made Trek feel real.

 

[Smellmet]

Same here, it gave it an 'edge' that it never really got back

 

[austen_pierce]

Same here, it gave it an 'edge' that it never really got back

The opening sequence of ST09 came close for me. The interior of the Kelvin, especially the lower decks and the scraped up shuttle exterior had a very used look to it. I felt there was history there, not just props that had been made/painted just before the scene was shot.

 

[Smellmet]

Not sure I agree with that, while I agree with your aesthetic appraisal of the Kelvin, the overall tone of new Trek is quite light, colorful with a kind of a screwball energy to it.

When TWOK was first released in the UK it was a '15' certificate film, and I sure treated it more like a sci-fi thriller with some mild/moderate horror elements to it.

 

[austen_pierce]

Not sure I agree with that, while I agree with your aesthetic appraisal of the Kelvin, the overall tone of new Trek is quite light, colorful with a kind of a screwball energy to it.

When TWOK was first released in the UK it was a '15' certificate film, and I sure treated it more like a sci-fi thriller with some mild/moderate horror elements to it.

I think we're on the same page. I was only talking about the first few minutes of 09 and the banged up Kelvin set pieces.

 

[Khan 2.0]

As recurring baddies, the "Conspiracy" buggers would have been better than the Borg. The Borg are best as a one-off.

Or rather a one-off in a sci-fi action thriller film. *cough*

maybe they'd have been better off making Nemesis the follow up to Conspiracy. A full on Aliens/Body Snatchers horror film

 

[austen_pierce]

As recurring baddies, the "Conspiracy" buggers would have been better than the Borg. The Borg are best as a one-off.

Or rather a one-off in a sci-fi action thriller film. *cough*

maybe they'd have been better off making Nemesis the follow up to Conspiracy. A full on Aliens/Body Snatchers horror film

Maybe. But at the time fans were clamoring for Borg on the big screen and we hadn't gotten it. The Borg were the major TNG bad guys who hadn't really been dealt with. IMO FC pretty much had to be a Borg film.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

As recurring baddies, the "Conspiracy" buggers would have been better than the Borg. The Borg are best as a one-off.

Or rather a one-off in a sci-fi action thriller film. *cough*

maybe they'd have been better off making Nemesis the follow up to Conspiracy. A full on Aliens/Body Snatchers horror film

Maybe. But at the time fans were clamoring for Borg on the big screen and we hadn't gotten it. The Borg were the major TNG bad guys who hadn't really been dealt with. IMO FC pretty much had to be a Borg film.

He said making NEM the follow-up to "Conspiracy".

 

[austen_pierce]

maybe they'd have been better off making Nemesis the follow up to Conspiracy. A full on Aliens/Body Snatchers horror film

Maybe. But at the time fans were clamoring for Borg on the big screen and we hadn't gotten it. The Borg were the major TNG bad guys who hadn't really been dealt with. IMO FC pretty much had to be a Borg film.

He said making NEM the follow-up to "Conspiracy".

"One little mistake..." - Kirk TVH

 

[M.A.C.O.]

I don't like the scene where Khan crushed Marcus' skull with his bare hands -- and in front of his daughter whose leg he just had broken too. With disgusting sounds.

Was it needed? I am sure not.

Eh, Khan is a violent murderer. He did torture and slit the throats of helpless scientists in TWOK. Him crushing a dudes skull and stepping on a woman's leg doesn't even register on my radar as out of character for the guy.

Fantasy sci-fi traditionally used rayguns not only for the futuristic look but to avoid showing blood and such when dispatching enemies.
....
Star Trek should be cleaner.

Is this cleaner?
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYePPtRE9eQ[/yt]
Given both Starfleet and Klingons were shooting to kill and not stun. This fight and others in Trek (NEM, FC, Rocks and Shoals, Siege of AR 558, Several episodes from the Xindi Arc) can be pretty disturbing.

I also didn't like in ST2009 when Kirk ordered open fire with all weapons at an enemy already defeated. In traditional Star Trek the enemy would "honorably" self-destruct after refusing help.

Nero's ship had already survived one trip through a red matter black hole. There was a chance Nero and his ship could've materialized in another timeline and continue their quest for vengeance. Kirk did the responsible thing by ending the threat Nero posed to other innocent people in the galaxy. Also it's satisfying to see a bad guy get their just deserts in the end. As opposed to the villain dying from their own carlessness (Green Goblin in Spider-Man 2002) or circumstances around them exempt the hero from having to get their hands dirty (Batman Begins 2005).

I also didn't like in STID that Kirk took our beloved starship Enterprise as a weapon of vengeance and execution on John Harrison. And at the end they didnt think twice before forcibly dissected him for the magic resurrection.

Kirk eventually decided to not execute Marcu's plan of killing Khan/Harrison without trial. Instead listening to his counsel/consciousness (Spock and McCoy) and deciding to take Khan/Harrison alive to face Fed justice. That's our Kirk!

 

[Smellmet]

Shat Happens wrote:
I also didn't like in STID that Kirk took our beloved starship Enterprise as a weapon of vengeance and execution on John Harrison.

That'll be the 'Into Darkness' bit

 

[austen_pierce]

Shat Happens wrote:
I also didn't like in STID that Kirk took our beloved starship Enterprise as a weapon of vengeance and execution on John Harrison.

That'll be the 'Into Darkness' bit

I wasn't crazy about Kirk's actions after Pike died, and I've posted elsewhere that I felt he was emotionally compromised and could/should have been removed from command.

 

[Franklin]

Shat Happens wrote:
I also didn't like in STID that Kirk took our beloved starship Enterprise as a weapon of vengeance and execution on John Harrison.

That'll be the 'Into Darkness' bit

I wasn't crazy about Kirk's actions after Pike died, and I've posted elsewhere that I felt he was emotionally compromised and could/should have been removed from command.

Yeah, but Marcus actually took advantage of it, instead.

------

The most violent part of either of the two movies may have actually been the bar fight in ST09. A lot of quite realistic fight violence in a short period of time and Kirk is left a bleeding and drooling mess. He suffered far more than the traditional ripped shirt.