Vina quote from The Cage

[Qonundrum]

This quote really resonated with me.

Vina : When dreams become more important than reality, you give up travel, building, creating. You even forget how to repair the machines left behind by your ancestors. You just sit, living and reliving other lives left behind in the thought record.

Could be anything, it's open-ended enough to allow the audience to fill in a blank instead of being preached at. Which isn't top say preaching is always bad, some issues are more universally repugnant than relatively so. If nothing else, and keep in mind I didn't dislike the speech in question, Tasha talking to Wesley about druuuuuuugs fits right into this. Only in a different way.

 

[Henoch]

Could be anything, it's open-ended enough to allow the audience to fill in a blank instead of being preached at. Which isn't top say preaching is always bad, some issues are more universally repugnant than relatively so. If nothing else, and keep in mind I didn't dislike the speech in question, Tasha talking to Wesley about druuuuuuugs fits right into this. Only in a different way.

I wonder how many people in the audience understood Vina's speech in its first run, rather our audience here who take the pleasure to watch the show in reruns, DVD, BluRay, plus get to read transcripts and analyze the implications of the speech years after the first run. During its first run in TNG, the drug speech was obvious to me. Maybe adults got it, but kids not so.

 

[Crimson Forcefield]

Really! I didn't know that. Sounds like something epistemological. In what work?

Confessions, alluding to Plato's Gorgias and to Plutarch.

 

[johnnybear]

Oh, please, just no. Leave them be

What DSC or The Cage remake, Phase?
JB

 

[Phaser Two]

What DSC or The Cage remake, Phase?
JB

Yeah, at this point DSC should just remake every TOS episode, JB, with lens flares and "improved" writing! (It's okay to continue to use Frain as Sarek and Mia Kirshner as Amanda, though.)

 

[johnnybear]

AHHGGGG!!! No!!! It would be more of a disaster than what DSC is already, Phase!!! And you can keep your Frain, I prefer Mark Lenard as Sarek!
JB

 

[Henoch]

And you can keep your Frain, I prefer Mark Lenard as Sarek!

Fain is a seasoned actor and did a great job as Sarek. Getting the iconic Lenard to play the role of Sarek would be a little difficult; rest his soul. Live Long and Prosper, Sarek of Vulcan.

 

[johnnybear]

Mark Lenard's take on Sarek or even Urko can't be beat! I'm friends with one of his daughters on FB so I have to be on his side! But seriously in my mind you can't beat the way he played the role!
JB

 

[T'Bonz]

Loved Mark Lenard but Frain is pretty good.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

And you can keep your Frain, I prefer Mark Lenard as Sarek!

I have a feeling that Lenard isn't going to be playing Sarek again any time soon, though.

Call it a hunch.

 

[Phaser Two]

Loved Mark Lenard but Frain is pretty good.

I agree. I thought the inclusion of Burnham's Spock connection was silly and unneeded but Frain was quite good in the role. Mia Kirshner was utterly perfect.

 

[uniderth]

I'd rather not see The Cage remade. According to a timeline I found online, Pike already went to Talos before the first season of Discovery.

It's not like they'd let that stop them.

 

[Henoch]

How old would you put Vina? She was wiser than she let on as indicated with her observation of the Talosians. Number One fell short of saying it, but she indicated that Vina is probably older that Pike, maybe by many years:

ONE: Well, shall we do a little time computation? There was a Vina listed on that expedition as an adult crewman. Now, adding eighteen years to your age then.​

Based on her appearance when her illusion of beauty was dropped, I'll put her at ~65 years old. All the men in the exposition were fairly old, in their 60's. Any other thoughts?

 

[thribs]

She’s 7 years older than Pike.

 

[Henoch]

She’s 7 years older than Pike.

Jeffery Hunter (Pike) was 38 for filming, so, Vina was 45 by your statement. Anton Mount was 44 in filming DSC, which is 3 years after the Talos visit, so, he would have been 41, making Vina 48.
By the way, Susan Oliver was 32 for filming.

 

[Timo]

She's no more real than the men.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Henoch]

She's no more real than the men.

Timo Saloniemi

If I get you, the Talosians didn't have any live humans from the wreck. Their end game was to get Pike and two breeding females on the planet surface to start a new civilization of care keepers (nice term for slaves) to take care of their vegetative bodies and fix their machines. Or did they need a human presence for some other reason? To live through the humans; entire life times.

I like to believe that Vina was real as presented, and physically there with Pike at the end, willing to die with them. Her dialog was just too convincing that she was real and not a fabrication.

 

[johnnybear]

Oh Vina was real all right! The Talosians gave her the illusion of youth and beauty instead of her real twisted image! Years later all they wanted was for Pike to return to them and live with them, giving him the ability to leave the limits of his crippled body and live as a normal human being for the remainder of his life!
JB

 

[Timo]

I like to believe that Vina was real as presented, and physically there with Pike at the end, willing to die with them. Her dialog was just too convincing that she was real and not a fabrication.

But the dialog would be part of the illusion - Pike would provide all of it, and it would by definition convince him.

Vina is a lie no matter how one looks at it. If her ultimate appearance is for real, she can't be the new Eve, and the whole thing was a lie to begin with. If the appearance is a final untruth instead, a last ditch attempt to convince Pike to refrain from glassing the planet, then Vina is in evil cahoots with the Talosians to the hilt, or then powerless to exist as an individual at all.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Phaser Two]

She’s 7 years older than Pike.

Is that right? Where does this come from?