Vice Admiral Janeway?

[Vonstadt]

Chief of Security/Tactical Officer?

This was my guess as well

 

[Ro_Laren]

I thought it didn't make sense for her to be promoted to a 3 star Admiral. I would be so mad if I was a 2 star Admiral, in the Admiralty for years, and then loss a position and promotion to a Captain! That is just wrong! I can more easily understand a big promotion for a lower ranked officer, but not an officer so high up the food chain. It would be one thing if the Federation was still in a time of war during her big promotion, but not during a time of peace. The only justification is if all of a sudden a bunch of Admirals decided to retire (tired after the Dominion War) and then there were a bunch of spots to be filled that had to be filled by an Admiral of a certain rank.

The real reason she was promoted to the rank we saw her in Nemesis is because it looked cooler for Admiral Janeway to have three pips on each collar instead of one.

 

[Red Ranger]

Chief of Security/Tactical Officer?

Sounds reasonable to me! So who took over as operations officer? Seven of Nine, perhaps? -- RR

 

[Akiraprise]

Chief of Security/Tactical Officer?

Sounds reasonable to me! So who took over as operations officer? Seven of Nine, perhaps? -- RR

I don't remember. Seven isn't on board Voyager anymore, if I recall right. I didn't really think it made a lot of sense for Harry to go over to tactical. That never seemed to be his bag.

 

[DrTaylor]

Okay, well, if we promote them all once for every time they died in the line of duty, Janeway should be an admiral and Harry should be a captain.

 

[Timo]

I thought it didn't make sense for her to be promoted to a 3 star Admiral. I would be so mad if I was a 2 star Admiral, in the Admiralty for years, and then loss a position and promotion to a Captain! That is just wrong!

Actually, that's not quite how it works in the real world.

Ranks from Ensign to Captain are fairly straightforward things: you graduate, and then your rank increases according to your service years and accomplishments. However, the flag ranks are a very different matter. In the United States Navy, which is a relatively typical example, it goes rather like this:

You get promoted from Captain to flag rank because you are a good fellow who has the right connections. What happens next? You wait at the lowest flag rank (Commodore, Rear Admiral (lower half), whatever) until a position opens where you can work for the Navy and the Nation. And then you are promoted, not to the next rank up, but instead to the rank that best fits the open position.

That is, you wait at the rank of Rear Admiral (lower half) for many years or perhaps two weeks, basically doing make-work. That's why the rank is called that, really: you are at the lower half of the waiting list for real work. Then you become Chief of Operations and get an instant promotion to "true" Rear Admiral like Kirk - or you become Chief of Romulan Affairs and get an instant promotion to Vice Admiral like Janeway, or perhaps Chief of Staff with an instant promotion to full four-pip Admiral like Admiral Bob from ST5. You serve in that position for a set number of years, after which you (at least in theory) lose your position-related rank and revert back to the waiting-list rank. At that point, you are supposed to resign from the USN, but probably not from Starfleet where people have far longer productive careers.

Again, that's how it works in the real world: movement through flag ranks is not systematic, and sudden hops and even reversions are the rule rather than an exception. Starfleet might operate in a more simplistic and intuitive manner, because that's what the audiences would have an easier time comprehending. But then again, the fact that Janeway did gain three pips on her collar suggests that Starfleet might indeed operate in a real-world manner.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[kimc]

^ Wow, this post post should be flagged/stickied for future rank discussions. Thanks!

 

[nx1701g]

Senior Staff USS Voyager as of the Voyager relaunch:

Commanding Officer: Captain Chakotay
Executive Officer: Lieutenant Commander Tom Paris
Chief Medical Officer: Commander Jarem Kaz*
Chief Security/Tactical Officer: Lieutenant Harry Kim
Chief Engineer: Lieutenant Vorik
Chief Counselor: Lieutenant Astall*
Chief Flight Control Officer: Lieutenant Akolo Tare*
Chief Ops Officer: Ensign Lyssa Campbell*
Chief Science Officer: Lieutenant Devi Patel*


* - New character

 

[Red Ranger]

I thought it didn't make sense for her to be promoted to a 3 star Admiral. I would be so mad if I was a 2 star Admiral, in the Admiralty for years, and then loss a position and promotion to a Captain! That is just wrong!

Actually, that's not quite how it works in the real world.

Ranks from Ensign to Captain are fairly straightforward things: you graduate, and then your rank increases according to your service years and accomplishments. However, the flag ranks are a very different matter. In the United States Navy, which is a relatively typical example, it goes rather like this:

You get promoted from Captain to flag rank because you are a good fellow who has the right connections. What happens next? You wait at the lowest flag rank (Commodore, Rear Admiral (lower half), whatever) until a position opens where you can work for the Navy and the Nation. And then you are promoted, not to the next rank up, but instead to the rank that best fits the open position.

That is, you wait at the rank of Rear Admiral (lower half) for many years or perhaps two weeks, basically doing make-work. That's why the rank is called that, really: you are at the lower half of the waiting list for real work. Then you become Chief of Operations and get an instant promotion to "true" Rear Admiral like Kirk - or you become Chief of Romulan Affairs and get an instant promotion to Vice Admiral like Janeway, or perhaps Chief of Staff with an instant promotion to full four-pip Admiral like Admiral Bob from ST5. You serve in that position for a set number of years, after which you (at least in theory) lose your position-related rank and revert back to the waiting-list rank. At that point, you are supposed to resign from the USN, but probably not from Starfleet where people have far longer productive careers.

Again, that's how it works in the real world: movement through flag ranks is not systematic, and sudden hops and even reversions are the rule rather than an exception. Starfleet might operate in a more simplistic and intuitive manner, because that's what the audiences would have an easier time comprehending. But then again, the fact that Janeway did gain three pips on her collar suggests that Starfleet might indeed operate in a real-world manner.

Timo Saloniemi

Fascinating. That model should have been adhered to in the TOS movies, because it never made sense to me that Rear Admiral Kirk would be in charge of Starfleet Operations! But it would be more simplistic if it the rank progression were more linear, as you pointed out. -- RR