Vice Admiral Janeway?

[Red Ranger]

People:

Before I posted this topic, I scanned Memory Alpha to see if there was an answer to my question, but I didn't find it. Thought I'd avail myself of you BBS nitpickers. Someone here has to know!

Why is it that when we see Janeway in NEM, she's been promoted to Vice Admiral? That's at least two steps in rank, if not three, if Starfleet has a Rear Admiral, Lower Half rank? (Personally, I wish they wouldn't have that unwieldy rank). Normally, Janeway should have just been a Rear Admiral of some sort.

The only way it makes sense is, as I recall, in the VOY relaunch novels, many of the characters received promotions of two ranks above the ones they held while in the Delta Quadrant. Or did she get such a bump up in rank for successfully bringing Voyager back to the Alpha Quadrant and neutralizing the Borg?

Sure you all have some answers or even conjectures.

Red Ranger

 

[Unicron]

Are any specific reasons for that sort of promotion given in the novels? I haven't read them. Commodore might seem more appropriate, since there's no evidence that the rank doesn't still exist.

 

[msbae]

Considering that she...

1.) Got Voyager back home in one relative piece...

2.) Made First Contact with so many new species...

3.) Explored more space than any other Starfleet Captain in History...

AND

4.) Virtually annihilated the Borg...

...I'm surprised they didn't make her Admiral of the Fleet. She definitely deserves that kind of a job.

 

[Red Ranger]

Are any specific reasons for that sort of promotion given in the novels? I haven't read them. Commodore might seem more appropriate, since there's no evidence that the rank doesn't still exist.

Well, there's no direct evidence that commodore no longer exists, just indirect evidence that it's no longer in use by the 24th century. There is just one reference to the rank in TNG, in the ep The Enemy. Geordi calls his Romulan captor commodore, indicating he was using the rank in jest, at the very least. And in TNG ep Coming of Age, Admiral Quinn wants to promote Captain Picard to an admiral rank so he can become commandant of Starfleet Academy. If the rank existed, wouldn't that be the next step for Captain Picard in the ranks, and high enough of a rank for him to run the Academy? -- RR

 

[jgdst]

I'm still surprised she took the promotion to be honest. After 7 years trying to keep the Family together, the first thing she does is leave the ship I haven't read the VOY-R novels, but I was surprised by her appearance in Nemesis as an admiral.

 

[nx1701g]

Are any specific reasons for that sort of promotion given in the novels? I haven't read them. Commodore might seem more appropriate, since there's no evidence that the rank doesn't still exist.

In the novels Starfleet promoted each member of the Voyager crew two steps in rank unless they were promoted during Voyager's mission home. If they were promoted while in the Delta Quadrant then they only went up one rank level.

These are the current ranks of Voyager Characters in the novels (dead characters included):

Kathryn Janeway: Vice Admiral - Starfleet Command
Chakotay: Captain - USS Voyager (CO)
Tuvok: Commander - USS Titan
Tom Paris: Lieutenant Commander - USS Voyager (XO)
B'Elanna Torres: Lieutenant Commander - Unassigned
Harry Kim: Lieutenant - USS Voyager (CSTO)
Vorik: Lieutenant - USS Voyager (CEO)
The Doctor: No Rank
Seven of Nine: No Rank

 

[Squiggy]

Star Trek has been notorious when addressing an admiral's specific rank and having their pips match. There were numerous times when someone was refered to as "Fleet Admiral" when they had only 3 or 4 pips instead of 5.

 

[Red Ranger]

Are any specific reasons for that sort of promotion given in the novels? I haven't read them. Commodore might seem more appropriate, since there's no evidence that the rank doesn't still exist.

In the novels Starfleet promoted each member of the Voyager crew two steps in rank unless they were promoted during Voyager's mission home. If they were promoted while in the Delta Quadrant then they only went up one rank level.

These are the current ranks of Voyager Characters in the novels (dead characters included):

Kathryn Janeway: Vice Admiral - Starfleet Command
Chakotay: Captain - USS Voyager (CO)
Tuvok: Commander - USS Titan
Tom Paris: Lieutenant Commander - USS Voyager (XO)
B'Elanna Torres: Lieutenant Commander - Unassigned
Harry Kim: Lieutenant - USS Voyager (CSTO)
Vorik: Lieutenant - USS Voyager (CEO)
The Doctor: No Rank
Seven of Nine: No Rank

Hey, thanks for the confirmation, nx1701g! -- RR

 

[JayTheTrekkie]

Are any specific reasons for that sort of promotion given in the novels? I haven't read them. Commodore might seem more appropriate, since there's no evidence that the rank doesn't still exist.

In the novels Starfleet promoted each member of the Voyager crew two steps in rank unless they were promoted during Voyager's mission home. If they were promoted while in the Delta Quadrant then they only went up one rank level.

These are the current ranks of Voyager Characters in the novels (dead characters included):

Kathryn Janeway: Vice Admiral - Starfleet Command
Chakotay: Captain - USS Voyager (CO)
Tuvok: Commander - USS Titan
Tom Paris: Lieutenant Commander - USS Voyager (XO)
B'Elanna Torres: Lieutenant Commander - Unassigned
Harry Kim: Lieutenant - USS Voyager (CSTO)
Vorik: Lieutenant - USS Voyager (CEO)
The Doctor: No Rank
Seven of Nine: No Rank

Samantha Wildman was promoted too...full lieutenant for sure.

 

[Unicron]

Well, there's no direct evidence that commodore no longer exists, just indirect evidence that it's no longer in use by the 24th century. There is just one reference to the rank in TNG, in the ep The Enemy. Geordi calls his Romulan captor commodore, indicating he was using the rank in jest, at the very least. And in TNG ep Coming of Age, Admiral Quinn wants to promote Captain Picard to an admiral rank so he can become commandant of Starfleet Academy. If the rank existed, wouldn't that be the next step for Captain Picard in the ranks, and high enough of a rank for him to run the Academy? -- RR

It was in jest, but only because Geordi didn't know Bochra's name or rank yet. As for Quinn's desire to make Picard an admiral, that doesn't discount the (possible) existence of the commodore rank. It's simply the rank Quinn wanted for Picard, had he accepted the offer.

 

[Red Ranger]

Well, there's no direct evidence that commodore no longer exists, just indirect evidence that it's no longer in use by the 24th century. There is just one reference to the rank in TNG, in the ep The Enemy. Geordi calls his Romulan captor commodore, indicating he was using the rank in jest, at the very least. And in TNG ep Coming of Age, Admiral Quinn wants to promote Captain Picard to an admiral rank so he can become commandant of Starfleet Academy. If the rank existed, wouldn't that be the next step for Captain Picard in the ranks, and high enough of a rank for him to run the Academy? -- RR

It was in jest, but only because Geordi didn't know Bochra's name or rank yet. As for Quinn's desire to make Picard an admiral, that doesn't discount the (possible) existence of the commodore rank. It's simply the rank Quinn wanted for Picard, had he accepted the offer.

True that. However, I got the feeling he used the name as a joke because the rank had fallen into disuse, so he gave him a "nonexistent" rank as part of the joke. As for commodore, considering the rank's convoluted history, I'm not surprised if it's fallen into disuse. Perhaps, as it was for a long time, it's a temporary appointment for a captain in command of a group of ships, instead of an actual rank. -- RR

 

[Kadratis]

Well, I'd imagine they promoted her to a higher rank to where she was stuck behind a desk where she couldn't cause any more "damage." And besides, after all the work she did in the Delta Quadrant, I'm sure she would love a desk job considering what she had done the past seven years if she wanted to remain an officer.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

True that. However, I got the feeling he used the name as a joke because the rank had fallen into disuse, so he gave him a "nonexistent" rank as part of the joke. As for commodore, considering the rank's convoluted history, I'm not surprised if it's fallen into disuse. Perhaps, as it was for a long time, it's a temporary appointment for a captain in command of a group of ships, instead of an actual rank. -- RR

As for the convoluted history of the Commodore rank: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_(United_States)
And that's just the history of the rank in the US navy.

 

[Unicron]

Indeed. It's not uncommon in history that certain ranks have disappeared and reappeared at the convenience of the situation.

 

[Red Ranger]

Indeed. It's not uncommon in history that certain ranks have disappeared and reappeared at the convenience of the situation.

In Earth history -- geez, I'm talking as if there are other histories! -- the rank of commodore was also not considered equal to other countries' admiral or general ranks. This is one of the reasons that led the U.S. to authorize admirals so that there weren't problems dealing with navies of other nations that didn't recognize commodore as a flag rank.

Also, if you read the Wikipedia article Al-Pharazon posted, there is clearly a tradition in the U.S. Navy where commodore is now, and has been for some time, a title bestowed on senior captains who are in command of groups of ships like destroyers. And the one-star admirals, formerly commodores, are referred to as rear admiral, lower half.

But getting back to Janeway. I would imagine then there isn't either a commodore or rear admiral, lower half rank in Starfleet, because if she was skipped two ranks up like the rest of the VOY contingent in the relaunch, then she'd be rear admiral, lower half, not a vice admiral.

I think commodore exists as a position, not as a rank, by the 24th century, say for when a captain is given command of a group of ships, just as is the practice in the modern U.S. Navy. Rather than get an admiral to command that task force, a starship captain is named to the position of commodore.

Of course, if that were true, wouldn't that be what Picard would've been called when he blockaded the Romulans during the Klingon Civil War? Or what Sisko would have been called when he led many ships against the Dominion? Not sure!

I would like to see a special insignia for commodores myself to denote it's a temporary assignment: four gold pips, identical to the four silver pips for full captains, but an intermediary rank that straddles the look of a senior officer (captain) and the color of a flag officer's pips (various admiral ranks).

Red Ranger

 

[nx1701g]

Are any specific reasons for that sort of promotion given in the novels? I haven't read them. Commodore might seem more appropriate, since there's no evidence that the rank doesn't still exist.

In the novels Starfleet promoted each member of the Voyager crew two steps in rank unless they were promoted during Voyager's mission home. If they were promoted while in the Delta Quadrant then they only went up one rank level.

These are the current ranks of Voyager Characters in the novels (dead characters included):

Kathryn Janeway: Vice Admiral - Starfleet Command
Chakotay: Captain - USS Voyager (CO)
Tuvok: Commander - USS Titan
Tom Paris: Lieutenant Commander - USS Voyager (XO)
B'Elanna Torres: Lieutenant Commander - Unassigned
Harry Kim: Lieutenant - USS Voyager (CSTO)
Vorik: Lieutenant - USS Voyager (CEO)
The Doctor: No Rank
Seven of Nine: No Rank

Samantha Wildman was promoted too...full lieutenant for sure.

I was only going with people who were still assigned to Voyager or were Main Characters. Samantha Wildman left the ship.

 

[Red Ranger]

In the novels Starfleet promoted each member of the Voyager crew two steps in rank unless they were promoted during Voyager's mission home. If they were promoted while in the Delta Quadrant then they only went up one rank level.

These are the current ranks of Voyager Characters in the novels (dead characters included):

Kathryn Janeway: Vice Admiral - Starfleet Command
Chakotay: Captain - USS Voyager (CO)
Tuvok: Commander - USS Titan
Tom Paris: Lieutenant Commander - USS Voyager (XO)
B'Elanna Torres: Lieutenant Commander - Unassigned
Harry Kim: Lieutenant - USS Voyager (CSTO)
Vorik: Lieutenant - USS Voyager (CEO)
The Doctor: No Rank
Seven of Nine: No Rank

Samantha Wildman was promoted too...full lieutenant for sure.

I was only going with people who were still assigned to Voyager or were Main Characters. Samantha Wildman left the ship.

So what happened to B'Elanna? She is unassigned. What is she up to in the relaunch series, and why did she not stay as chief engineer? And what does CSTO stand for regarding Harry Kim's position? -- RR

 

[Vic Sixx]

They sent her on some spirit quest on Kronos to find and help her mother. Tom and the baby eventually moved there. A pity Christie Golden is too busy to write any more books.

Never understood how Belanna could have been promoted, she was Maquis, her rank was honorary, shouldn't she have to go back to the academy? Wesley had to.

 

[Red Ranger]

They sent her on some spirit quest on Kronos to find and help her mother. Tom and the baby eventually moved there. A pity Christie Golden is too busy to write any more books.

Never understood how Belanna could have been promoted, she was Maquis, her rank was honorary, shouldn't she have to go back to the academy? Wesley had to.

Vic:

Thanks for the info. As for your question about how B'Elanna's provisional rank could turn into a permanent commission, perhaps once Janeway became an admiral, she had the power to give her and any other officers under her command permanent commissions, similar to field promotions.

Now, if only someone can tell me what the hell Kim's position of CSTO means, I'll be a happy camper.

Red Ranger

 

[Akiraprise]

Chief of Security/Tactical Officer?