Who?
Very disappointing movie
- Thread starter trekmania2456
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I mean, if Kurtzman has class he'll show up in person.
There is nothing classy about the Razzies. Their members pay to vote for movies and actors they don't even have to have seen, but then the guy in charge just picks his own "winners."
Technically other awards have the same issue.
A whole year later and I dislike it less. It's still a bad film. But I also realize that it was mistitled and mislabelled.
If the producers had been upfront that this was a space gangster movie, aiming more for Peaky Blinders vibe than a Guardians of the Galaxy one, and retitled it Emperor Georgiou and the Baraam Gang, or something like that, it would have been hated less. And made more sense. And then Garrett could have been a proper undercover Section 31 agent, instead of a minder sent from Starfleet.
We as an audience may have actually stumbled on something new Star Trek did, if they had done that.
Instead, they did what they did.
If the producers had been upfront that this was a space gangster movie, aiming more for Peaky Blinders vibe than a Guardians of the Galaxy one, and retitled it Emperor Georgiou and the Baraam Gang, or something like that, it would have been hated less. And made more sense. And then Garrett could have been a proper undercover Section 31 agent, instead of a minder sent from Starfleet.
We as an audience may have actually stumbled on something new Star Trek did, if they had done that.
Instead, they did what they did.
And miswritten and misdirected.
Do I rip on it too much? Not from my perspective.
Yeah, a different title wouldn't have fixed the movie's writing flaws.
A thief and sometimes lover of Batman, but that's not important now.
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Star Trek: Because You'll Watch Whatever We Put Out.
I turned S31 0FF about 15 minutes into it
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While watching Secret Invasion, I knew I was watching the worst MCU thing hands down.
While watching Section 31, I knew I was watching the worst Star Trek thing hands down.
Streaming Trek's lack of understanding of Section 31, it's like giving people in witness protection parking spots marked "witness protection."
While watching Section 31, I knew I was watching the worst Star Trek thing hands down.
Streaming Trek's lack of understanding of Section 31, it's like giving people in witness protection parking spots marked "witness protection."
So you don't know how bad it actually is? Because the first 15 minutes was just the start.
I don't think the problem was that they misunderstood the concept. I mean, we saw Section 31 in DSC. The problem was that they hijacked the concept for a totally unrelated plot made specifically to cater to Michelle Yeoh so her and her buddies could do a lot of kicking people around.
And therein lies the rub.
DS9 made it very clear that basically no one knows about S31. Maybe a handful of admirals and a few other people. Sisko was shocked when he found out.
In DSC they have their own combadges. One can argue that no one knew what they ment, but even then, if you want to not be known as an organization, maybe not have symbols on your uniform that stand out.
So yeah, Discovery treated Section 31 as a known quantity. To me, that was them misunderstanding the concept.
Some people definitely knew what they meant. Georgiou shows Ash Tyler her badge and he knows what she's telling him without her having to say their name.
Tyler "...This isn't your everyday Federation espionage. What kind of organization could pull that off?"
Georgiou "This kind." (Shows him the badge)
Tyler "Section 31. I've heard of black badges. Never seen one."
Like I said, in DS9 maybe a few people knew, but S31 didn't walk around there with their own combadges that could make SF personal wonder what that was about. If you want to your organization, you don't put markings on in public that make people wonder what that means.
Can you imagine current day spies walking around in black leather uniforms and secret symbols and than pretending to blend in?
I know, I know, it's all make believe. But there's also a point where things get so weird that your disbelief stops. You just start wondering.
Hell, let's be honest.... Sloan's uniform was already a bit too much. He should have been wearing civilian clothing.
"Yes captain Sisko, a secret Starfleet department that works completely unseen. They also wear a black leather uniform that no one else does. It's impossible to know who might belong to them."
I'm not positive, but I believe you may have misunderstood my post. I was agreeing with you and giving an example of the crappy approach to S31 in Discovery.
I did indeed misunderstand. I apologize.
But surely the things going on in the world today show how easily things can be buried and hidden from the public. If SFA stops teaching it, in a century it's forgotten aside from some long-lived aliens sworn to secrecy.
Disco's S31 is 100% based on Into Darkness' version, which has the excuse of being another universe.
The Feral Historian did a video about Section 31 (the organization) where among other things notes the depiction of S31 in the modern productions is more a reflection of the tact that in modern pop culture, shady spy agencies are just expected to have some involvement in things which are going on.
The video, if anyone's interested:
The video, if anyone's interested:
So let me reword my post so that I'm a bit clearer. I understand that the depiction of S31 in DSC is quite different from their depiction in DS9, in that other people who weren't in Section 31 still knew of their existence and even knew specific members (i.e. Pike knew Leland.) My point was, rather, that the DSC depiction still showed them as more of a CIA-type organization with agents and such based on what we saw in DS9, while the S31 movie basically shows them as a bunch of Guardian of the Galaxy wannabes who end up acting like Keystone Kops.
DS9: Possibly super secret organization nobody knows about, but the one dude who claims to be part of it might be making the whole thing up to fuck with Bashir.
ENT: Super secret organization which shouldn’t even exist yet because information revealed they were created once the Federation was formed. Still only one dude, but Malcolm already knows him and knows all about the organization.
STID: Super secret organization that the top admiral at Starfleet Command knows about, because he’s also a member. And apparently he’s so cocky that he has a model of his super secret battleship right on his desk for anyone at all to see.
DSC: Not very super secret organization that Starfleet officers of at least captain rank know all about, and even know its members. Despite this, the organization uses technology that’s far ahead of Starfleet even though technically Starfleet should know all about it.
S31: “Hey everybody, we’re Section 31, and we’ve come to chew bubble gum and kick ass with our kung-fu fighting!”
So the actual concept of Section 31 as an organization has just become progressively worse over time. Expect it to pop up in some form 800 years later in SFA, and be its worst iteration yet.
There were people from the 23rd century still alive in DS9's time (Spock springs instantly to mind.) There's no way Section 31 would have been out of the public consciousness in only 100 years.
But yes, I agree that DSC S31 is based directly on STID, right down to the design of their ships.
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