Vanguard controversy

[Cicero]

Oh, I was just curious. I'm Hindu, so I've never kept close track of Christian tenets.

 

[Trent Roman]

Cicero said:
Out of curiosity, would any of this apply to Pennington if he isn't Christian?

Christianity is an all or nothing system of divinity that has no room for alternatives. You can either be saved through Christ or you can go to hell; there's no way to buyout from the system altogether. From that worldview, Christian tenets and codes of conduct would apply to him whether he likes it or not.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Cicero]

^ So the matter of sins and forgiveness wouldn't matter unless he converted? (Given that he'd already be damned.)

 

[captcalhoun]

you people and your labels...

 

[Trent Roman]

Cicero said:
^ So the matter of sins and forgiveness wouldn't matter unless he converted? (Given that he'd already be damned.)

Oh, that. Depends on your denomination. Some Christians believe that leading a good life is the principal requirement of attaining heaven; even if the individual was a non-believer, or of another faith, or one of the great many pre-Christians, if his or her existence was virtuous the pearly gates will open. Other denominations believe that to be insufficiant; Christ is the only means to salvation, and anybody who doesn't accept Christ burns, regardless of what they did in life (these are also the Christians who tend to believe that all non-Christians are in willful denial of universal knowledge that Christ is real, thus sinfully abjure Christ by not being Christians). And then there are (fewer) branches of Christianity who believe that their god has already chosen who will be saved and who goes down to the barbeque (sometimes there's actually a set number of these elect), so the question becomes moot: either you're pre-saved or you're pre-damned.

Still, it's or . No third option.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Therin of Andor]

foravalon said:
Wait, where is there controversy going on regarding Vanguard, and what controversy?

Here

Turtletrekker said:
I think that the "disturbing" stuff was the hot Vulcan/Klingon lesbian stuff.

Hehehehe. So it's okay for Spock's mother to have sex with an alien and procreate with him, but according to some 21st century human beings, a Klingon woman (of Earth's 23rd century) can't have recreational sex with a Vulcan woman?

 

[foravalon]

given the difference in species isn't it all considered bestiality ?

 

[flandry84]

Just goes to show how much TREK,s message of tolerance and acceptance is totally lost on some so-called fans.

 

[Csalem]

Whenever I see things like this I am always reminded of the piece in the DS9 Companion discussing Dax kissing the other women. There the producers talk about the calls they got about children seeing two women kissing and when they asked the caller if it would have been acceptable if one of the women shot the other, and the caller said yes, the producer asked the caller what kind of standards he was setting for his children.

People are getting upset about two women in a (based on my reading of subsequent books) a loving relationship but not about murders or other more serious things taking place like T'Pyrnn being responsible for a man loosing his job?

 

[Emissary of the Prophets]

Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."—1 Corinthians 6:9-10


Hell, that's me out. I could be classed as most of those.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Sorry if I appear naive, but I haven't yet read the novels. There are really people that consider distrurbing the fact that one of the character had an extramarital affair and because two female character have a same-sex relationship?
In a book where entire colonies are destroyed and ship blow up in the space?

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Guys, why is it such an issue that I find glorifying adultery wrong and homoexuality equally distasteful? I'm not telling you guys not to read it, so why are you on my case?

C'mon, deal with it.

 

[tenmei]

Isn't all that glorification of heterosexuality also quite distasteful?

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Turbo said:
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (NIV):

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And this is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

The third part of this verse (11), which TheLonelySquire has so conveniently left off, is that part that matters. Many of the Corinthians have sought, and been granted, forgiveness for their sins.

And in Vanguard, Pennington is trying to make up for his mistakes; he's seeking forgiveness. Is a story with someone seeking forgiveness for his sins too controversial and disturbing to read? If so, I suggest you return your copy of the Bible to Borders as well.

It wasn't left of for convenience sake. It was a matter of conformong to signature limits.

Also, the author portrayed Oriana as an adulterer with no regrets. She wasn't seeking forgiveness and unfortunately didn't have time before she died in the book.

Did the series also have T'Prinn or her lover seeking forgiveness? I'm asking because as I said before, I stopped after Harbinger.

 

[Steve Roby]

TheLonelySquire said:
Did the series also have T'Prinn or her lover seeking forgiveness? I'm asking because as I said before, I stopped after Harbinger.

Do you really expect fictional characters who are neither Christian nor human to follow the rules of what, to them, is just another alien religion?

 

[tenmei]

T'Prynn and Anna (Lurqal) aren't adulterers, thus nothing to seek forgiveness for.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

tenmei said:
Isn't all that glorification of heterosexuality also quite distasteful?

Actually, the promotion of sex for sexsake and the objectification of women as equally distaseful. Disgusting actually.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Steve Roby said:

TheLonelySquire said:
Did the series also have T'Prinn or her lover seeking forgiveness? I'm asking because as I said before, I stopped after Harbinger.

Do you really expect fictional characters who are neither Christian nor human to follow the rules of what, to them, is just another alien religion?

Nope. I wasn't aware the author was going to incorporate homosexuality in the book is all. I have a right to return the unread books and you have a right to read them. I'm not telling you or anyone else not to.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

tenmei said:
T'Prynn and Anna (Lurqal) aren't adulterers, thus nothing to seek forgiveness for.

 

[tenmei]

Why laugh at that statement?

Who's to say that the Vulcans and Klingons don't have a more open minded view than some people, that they don't see the big problem with a lesbian relationship.