Spoilers VAN: Storming Heaven by David Mack Review Thread

[Relayer1]

Re: Vanguard: Storming Heaven by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Are we sure ? Could T'Prynn have taken him out ?

Nahh, she only goes out with girls.

The old T'Prynn would've assassinated him. The new T'Prynn chose to spare his life despite her orders.

I sort of assumed as much ! You can never be sure with women though, they're vicious !

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Re: Vanguard: Storming Heaven by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

David Mack had said it was important for T'Prynn to find redemption. Not killing Quinn and finding him a better life was part of that redemption and finding inner peace.

I thought it was interesting that how later Pennington realized that was the last time anyone saw Cervantes Quinn. I'm wondering if that meant he later sees/meets Quinn under his new identity.

 

[Defcon]

Re: Vanguard: Storming Heaven by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I thought it was interesting that how later Pennington realized that was the last time anyone saw Cervantes Quinn. I'm wondering if that meant he later sees/meets Quinn under his new identity.

They never met again. At least that was David Mack's intention according to this post earlier in this thread (it's behind the spoiler button).

 

[David Mack]

Re: Vanguard: Storming Heaven by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I noticed now that the Maker was left out in the depths of space so it wasn’t captured and destroyed. So we could have a Shedai in a later story.

Actually, by the time the Wanderer opens the Conduit to the Progenitor, the Maker has rejoined the Colloquium (see p.227). She is captured along with all the others when the trap is activated, and she is destroyed with the others at the novel's end. Post-Vanguard, the Shedai are no more.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Re: Vanguard: Storming Heaven by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

^Awww, man. I haven't gotten to that part yet (the second time around). Guess I didn't remember that bit. So that Shedai ARE all gone.

So if they are all gone, does that mean the Tholians no longer have any fear of the Taurus Reach? If so, any remaining Shedai technology could be a threat since the Tholians have the ability to use it and wouldn't be worried about waking any Shedai who would then enslave them. Shedai tech in the hands of the Tholians could make the Typhon Pact very dangerous.

 

[Relayer1]

Re: Vanguard: Storming Heaven by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Shedai tech in the hands of the Tholians could make the Typhon Pact very dangerous.

Possibly, but if we discuss it any further in this forum it won't be ! Strictly no story ideas please !

 

[Christopher]

Re: Vanguard: Storming Heaven by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

So if they are all gone, does that mean the Tholians no longer have any fear of the Taurus Reach? If so, any remaining Shedai technology could be a threat since the Tholians have the ability to use it and wouldn't be worried about waking any Shedai who would then enslave them. Shedai tech in the hands of the Tholians could make the Typhon Pact very dangerous.

If that were the case, then the Tholians would most likely have already used that tech long before. It's not like joining the Pact has suddenly made the Tholians hostile to the Federation; on the contrary, they brought that pre-existing hostility with them when they joined. So if they haven't used that tech before, there's no reason that would change now.

 

[DimesDan]

Re: Vanguard: Storming Heaven by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

So if they are all gone, does that mean the Tholians no longer have any fear of the Taurus Reach? If so, any remaining Shedai technology could be a threat since the Tholians have the ability to use it and wouldn't be worried about waking any Shedai who would then enslave them. Shedai tech in the hands of the Tholians could make the Typhon Pact very dangerous.

If that were the case, then the Tholians would most likely have already used that tech long before. It's not like joining the Pact has suddenly made the Tholians hostile to the Federation; on the contrary, they brought that pre-existing hostility with them when they joined. So if they haven't used that tech before, there's no reason that would change now.

Unless now that new pair's of eyes are looking at the Shedai tech and thought, hey, we could use this against the Federation or hold it is reserve as a MAD deterrent against any possible future Federation aggression.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Re: Vanguard: Storming Heaven by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Perhaps they didn't have the ability to exploit the Shedai tech themselves but do now with the resources of their allies. Maybe they had the tech but didn't feel secure enough to let everyone know that but do now that they have allies.

Or maybe they just didn't want to reveal that they have Shedai based WMD. In "Paths of Disharmony," the Tholian ambassador said they are a patient people. They seemed to be content to let everyone remain in ignorance of what happened in the Taurus Reach until the events in that book.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Re: Vanguard: Storming Heaven by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Shedai tech in the hands of the Tholians could make the Typhon Pact very dangerous.

Possibly, but if we discuss it any further in this forum it won't be ! Strictly no story ideas please !

I'm not giving a story idea. Besides, the foundation for this has already been laid. I think if I were crossing a line, Christopher would have said so, or at least not joined in the discussion.

Believe me, I'm not wanting to derail anyone's book.

 

[Relayer1]

Re: Vanguard: Storming Heaven by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Shedai tech in the hands of the Tholians could make the Typhon Pact very dangerous.

Possibly, but if we discuss it any further in this forum it won't be ! Strictly no story ideas please !

I'm not giving a story idea. Besides, the foundation for this has already been laid. I think if I were crossing a line, Christopher would have said so, or at least not joined in the discussion.

Believe me, I'm not wanting to derail anyone's book.

I am 100% sure you didn't, and Christopher would certainly have flagged it.

It is, however, very easy to wander into 'what if X finds Y and does Z' territory though, and before you know it, the story you were so hoping for is a copyright impossibility...

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Re: Vanguard: Storming Heaven by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

If only derailing events in the real world were so easy.

 

[Ronald Held]

Re: Vanguard: Storming Heaven by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

All of the awakened Shedai are dead or all of them?

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Re: Vanguard: Storming Heaven by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I just reread Storming heaven and it was every bit as good the second time.

As the Tholians were attacking Vanguard, a thought occured to me:
Why wasn’t the Tkon array used to assist in the Battle of Vanguard? Sure they couldn’t target the Tholian fleet or take the array to full power (as Xiong told Jackson), but just switching it on would have brought great pain to all the Tholians on the attacking ships, hopefully making them unable to attack. Afterall, if the Tholians are all on the floor in pain, they can't fly their ships or fire weapons.

 

[David Mack]

Re: Vanguard: Storming Heaven by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

^ The amount of power it would have demanded might have compromised the power needed for the station's massive defensive screens and weapons arrays.

 

[Mike Winters]

Re: Vanguard: Storming Heaven by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

David,

How long did you foresee the final battle taking place over? Hour? Two Hours, half a day?

Also, I remember reading that the entire Tholian attack force sent to Vanguard accounted for roughly 20% of their entire fleet. After the Buenos Aries was lost, Khatami noted that roughly 65% of the attacking force had been eliminated.

So once the battle ended, most of the remaining attack force was eliminated. Given that the Tholians lost roughly a fifth of the entire fleet against one cruiser (not including the late comer on purpose) plus three other smaller vessels and a space station in that battle, would this be the reason as to why the Tholians never really engaged the Federation further (militarily) for the "Crimes of the Taurus Reach"?

Mike

 

[David Mack]

Re: Vanguard: Storming Heaven by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

David,

How long did you foresee the final battle taking place over? Hour? Two Hours, half a day?

A matter of minutes. I'd say that from the first shot to the last was less than twenty minutes, maybe even under 15 minutes.

Also, I remember reading that the entire Tholian attack force sent to Vanguard accounted for roughly 20% of their entire fleet. After the Buenos Aries was lost, Khatami noted that roughly 65% of the attacking force had been eliminated.

So once the battle ended, most of the remaining attack force was eliminated. Given that the Tholians lost roughly a fifth of the entire fleet against one cruiser (not including the late comer on purpose) plus three other smaller vessels and a space station in that battle, would this be the reason as to why the Tholians never really engaged the Federation further (militarily) for the "Crimes of the Taurus Reach"?

Mike

Well, keep in mind that Vanguard was an absolutely massive starbase that was built to repel a major siege. Arguably, most of the losses inflicted upon the Tholians were caused by the station itself. But yes, I can certainly imagine that one of the effects of this battle upon Tholian foreign policy would be to persuade the Tholians to shy away from large-scale military engagements vs. the Federation and stick to ambushes and sabotage.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Re: Vanguard: Storming Heaven by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

After the station exploded, I believe it was said only a few of the Tholian ships survived the explosion so the majority of the Armada was taken out, more than 65%.

I thought the battle took longer than that, but it makes sense that massive space battles are over quickly. At least if the battle was over that quickly, the Endeavor's engineering crew knew that their ship survived the battle thanks to their efforts.

 

[David Mack]

Re: Vanguard: Storming Heaven by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Well, it does say clearly in the text on page 323, in paragraph one (the start of Chapter 34):

Khatami had lost count of how many hull breaches had been reported in the mere minutes since the battle began.

Just sayin'.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Re: Vanguard: Storming Heaven by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

If you want to cite page and paragraph of the book you wrote, then there isn't much wiggle room for speculation is there?

I'm curious, how long did it take to find that quote? Mere minutes?