Indeed. It highlights human nature in such a wonderful way that it amuses me to no end when people declare it "not Star Trek." I'm there with you with loving this film.
USS Vengeance name
- Thread starter TrickyDickie
- Start date
It’s one of the Trekkiest of Treks. The idea that we can’t extrajudicially execute people is a really timely one. And the message that we need to overcome our baser instincts and be our best selves is easily in the spirit of TOS.Weird to see the word “love” in front of Into Darkness.
Plus, to be honest, it’s a lot of fun. It’s the first time since the TOS movies that I’ve found the Klingons intimidating. It’s one of the few Star Trek movies where the Enterprise doesn’t fire a shot. Kirk’s sacrifice is amazingly well-done by Quinto and Pine. Even though Kirk’s sacrifice is undone, the character had no reason to expect it to so it still works in context.
it was definitely the most edge of seat/full attention for entire duration cinema experience out of the 3 imo. (closely followed by ST09). just so much exciting Trekkie stuff gong on - the pre titles mega budget Apple remake with Vger steps meets Raiders with a Volcano opening! is he Khan?! Kirk 1st officer under Pike! Admiral Robocop! Pike death! AMT model ships! Kronos! Carol Marcus! Kirks Trek III leather coat! BOP redesign! angry TOS Klingons! 72? Holy crap he is khan! the Vengeance! Spock Prime cameo! (talking about Trek II/III), Khan going 'full Khan'! Blade Runner head crush! Ent v other Federation ship screen to screen subterfuge! reversed WOK Radiation chamber retred! (so it was his hand on the glass in the trailers!), reversed Space Seed brawl Spock v Khan 5th Element city fight!
and Enterprise doesn't fire a shot? Never realised that.
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I also love Into Darkness. Without shame.
But what do I know, I thought The Last Jedi was brilliant. They should probably give us a list beforehand of which movies we're supposed to love and hate.
But what do I know, I thought The Last Jedi was brilliant. They should probably give us a list beforehand of which movies we're supposed to love and hate.
I honestly could have done without the is-he-or-isn’t-he. I also think the most egregious flaw in the film—Khan as a white Englishman—could have been addressed with a throwaway line about Marcus changing his face or stealing his identity.
It’s how the Khan comic handled it and it would have gone a long way to just adding a little continuity.
Well, the "changing his face" bit is sort of implicit in him being coerced to be Harrison the superspook... Probably the only reason he didn't change his face back during the events was he didn't find the time.
That is, he probably had a dozen faces in the 23rd century, but would no doubt have preferred the prince-of-millions one, given his personality. But the personality never changed - Khan was quite the Brit in all three of his appearances, by definition: that's how you portray an Indian aristocrat, in Hollywood terms...
I loved the complex villain-plays-villain-and-gets-played-back plot that leaves a lot of detail ambiguous; the over-the-top villains and their gadgets defeated by the everyman heroes; and the Godfather and Blade Runner borrowings. I didn't appreciate the balance of action and story, or the Wrath of Khan homages. And there are two or three lines I would very much like to edit for consistency. But a line about Khan's face isn't among those...
Heck, if Khan had his Khan face on, our heroes (with 2010s rather than 1960s tools of trade) would have recognized him by that, literally automatically. Now they had to take a blood sample, which later turned out handy indeed.
Timo Saloniemi
That is, he probably had a dozen faces in the 23rd century, but would no doubt have preferred the prince-of-millions one, given his personality. But the personality never changed - Khan was quite the Brit in all three of his appearances, by definition: that's how you portray an Indian aristocrat, in Hollywood terms...
I loved the complex villain-plays-villain-and-gets-played-back plot that leaves a lot of detail ambiguous; the over-the-top villains and their gadgets defeated by the everyman heroes; and the Godfather and Blade Runner borrowings. I didn't appreciate the balance of action and story, or the Wrath of Khan homages. And there are two or three lines I would very much like to edit for consistency. But a line about Khan's face isn't among those...
Heck, if Khan had his Khan face on, our heroes (with 2010s rather than 1960s tools of trade) would have recognized him by that, literally automatically. Now they had to take a blood sample, which later turned out handy indeed.
Timo Saloniemi
not that secret.Marcus was just the kind of jerk that would name his secret project something like vengeance though wasn’t he?
Actually anyone who has a “secret project “anyway is a bit of a wonk...
I doubt the ship or her no doubt numerous sister ships (completed or projected) really were either secret, or a S31 project as such. They simply were need-to-know, and Kirk or Scotty certainly didn't need to know. And what S31 added was ideas from questionable sources, weapons the specs of might not have agreed with all interstellar treaties, and the ability to conduct missions with a compact mercenary crew when needed.
What Marcus wanted to keep secret was the fact that he took the Vengeance out on a spin. Her being seen anywhere near the Klingons would foil the plan where the Klingons look like the bad guys. But her being used to stop the horrible mutineer terrorist Kirk from destroying Earth with his rogue starship could have been made public news easily enough.
Timo Saloniemi
What Marcus wanted to keep secret was the fact that he took the Vengeance out on a spin. Her being seen anywhere near the Klingons would foil the plan where the Klingons look like the bad guys. But her being used to stop the horrible mutineer terrorist Kirk from destroying Earth with his rogue starship could have been made public news easily enough.
Timo Saloniemi
Wasn’t there radio chatter while Scotty was sneaking aboard that referred to it as the Vengeance? I could be totally wrong.
It's apocryphal. Before JJ, all starship names were of positive-themed events or people the writers thought were noble based on what they knew at the time. "Vengeance" is so out of place, nobody in their right mind would say that rings true to Star Trek. And there's a lot to STID I enjoyed. The name of the ship had me biting my lip so I wouldn't burst out laughing in the theater.
“Vengeance” is the name of real ships with real histories.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Vengeance
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vengeance
It’s no more silly than naming a ship “Enterprise.”
Seriously. Khan designed it, at least in part. Marcus probably let him name it. What else was he gonna call it?
If he's a Sikh he'd speak Punjabi and he'd call it USS Badalā'ō (ਬਦਲਾਓ)
