(US) Do you support a $15 minimum wage?

[scotthm]

the people who shit on minimum wage hikes apparently imagine that there's no negative effect from rising income and wealth inequality--when in fact we are seeing those effects right now. ...if we don't find a way to improve the lot of the working class and halt the shrinkage of the middle class, things are going to get a lot worse.

The middle class will be reduced by raising minimum wage. For example, do you really think that everyone making $15 an hour now will automatically get a significant raise just because minimum wage is increased to $15 per hour? No, many will just find themselves that much closer to the bottom of the wage ladder.
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[scotthm]

What's wrong with placing value on unskilled labor? Someone has to do the jobs others don't want to do.

It's the placing of an arbitrary value (AKA minimum wage) that I object to. Why not let the employer and worker set a mutually agreed upon value?
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[Kai "the spy"]

The middle class will be reduced by raising minimum wage. For example, do you really think that everyone making $15 an hour now will automatically get a significant raise just because minimum wage is increased to $15 per hour? No, many will just find themselves that much closer to the bottom of the wage ladder.
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Speaking as someone who earned more than the minimum wage until the last increase, and now I am at minimum wage level: That's a shitty argument. Yes, I've worked harder than most of my co-workers and have earned my place as assistant manager of our store, but it's not my co-workers' fault that our cheap employer hasn't raised my wages.

And not only that, while I once earned more than my co-workers, and now I earn the same as them, I still earn no less than I did before.

 

[Relayer1]

It's the placing of an arbitrary value (AKA minimum wage) that I object to. Why not let the employer and worker set a mutually agreed upon value?
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That only works if you've got a labour shortage. Otherwise, the employer says 'Right, if you won't work for that much, I'll find someone that will.'

 

[Kai "the spy"]

It's the placing of an arbitrary value (AKA minimum wage) that I object to. Why not let the employer and worker set a mutually agreed upon value?
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The problem with that is the shortage of available jobs. Workers have almost no room to bargain with, because there simply are no better options open to them, and the employers know that. Hence, leaving it to "free market" means having the employer set the wage and the worker, for lack of alternatives, having to take it.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

The middle class will be reduced by raising minimum wage.

The middle class has already been drastically reduced, primarily by right wing corporatist undermining of union membership in this country. The declining trends have followed parallel tracks for decades.

Meanwhile, countries like Germany take the opposite tack where labor and corporate interests work together in the best interests of their members and employees, because they know that happy and secure workers are productive workers, and you can hardly argue that Germany is not a successful economy.

It's the placing of an arbitrary value (AKA minimum wage) that I object to. Why not let the employer and worker set a mutually agreed upon value?

Because the worker is at a massive disadvantage in any such negotiations.

Because capitalism unchecked by oversight and regulation to keep it ethical frequently doesn't care about its workers or the public, whether it's payments and benefits or safety or environmental controls.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Canal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire

 

[BillJ]

You can't just selfishly say "Fuck you, I got mine."

That was exactly what he was saying. People like that irritate me to no end, because, obviously, society has done nothing to help them blossom. These folks single-handedly built the infrastructure that allows their business to thrive. They received no help from government in the way of loans or tax breaks.

I'd like to toss one of these fuckers that think that way into the middle of the Artic and say "okay fucker, build a thriving business".

 

[scotthm]

Meanwhile, countries like Germany take the opposite tack where labor and corporate interests work together in the best interests of their members and employees, because they know that happy and secure workers are productive workers

That's exactly how it should work. It does neither side any good when employers and employees battle one another rather than cooperating with one another.
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[scotthm]

now I am at minimum wage level: That's a shitty argument. Yes, I've worked harder than most of my co-workers and have earned my place as assistant manager of our store.

You should probably try to find a better place to work. An assistant manager shouldn't be making minimum wage, whatever that minimum is.
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[Amaris]

Yes, I'm in favor of a $15/hr minimum wage. I'm also in favor of universal basic income.

 

[Starbreaker]

Speaking as someone who earned more than the minimum wage until the last increase, and now I am at minimum wage level: That's a shitty argument. Yes, I've worked harder than most of my co-workers and have earned my place as assistant manager of our store, but it's not my co-workers' fault that our cheap employer hasn't raised my wages.

And not only that, while I once earned more than my co-workers, and now I earn the same as them, I still earn no less than I did before.

So your boss has given you all the responsibilities he doesn't want for the same pay? That's pretty shitty. I wouldn't stay there another day if I had other options.

 

[Jayson1]

I thought $15 a hour was actually kind of low. I don't recall which show but they did a study where if the minimum wage had rose over the years it should be more like $20 hour?

Jason

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I thought $15 a hour was actually kind of low. I don't recall which show but they did a study where if the minimum wage had rose over the years it should be more like $20 hour?

Right, if it was tied to increases in worker productivity, in the US it should be somewhere in the range of $22-$24. Yet we struggle to get people to approve of a $15 minimum wage as they classify woefully underpaid workers as moochers who are undeserving of a living wage.

 

[Stoo]

I'm also in favor of universal basic income.

I'm increasingly thinking this will be a difficult but necessary step. We can't keep removing jobs while requiring people to work for a decent living.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

The problem with that is the shortage of available jobs. Workers have almost no room to bargain with, because there simply are no better options open to them, and the employers know that. Hence, leaving it to "free market" means having the employer set the wage and the worker, for lack of alternatives, having to take it.

You live in Germany where the situation is a bit different, but there is no job shortage in the US. What we have is a labor force whose skills don't align with the jobs available. You would think the solution to that is identifying those gaps and finding ways to train people to fill them, but we don't really do that--employers don't do it, the government doesn't do much in that area, and so we just flail around expecting the situation to sort itself out somehow.

One trend that shows the necessity of a higher minimum wage here is the fact that we're replacing factory jobs that have good benefits and pay rates with service jobs that are at or just above minimum wage--think fast food, retail service, and so forth. Some states boast these "jobs miracles," but in every case it's just replacing the good jobs that were shed with crappy jobs that don't pay enough for anyone to live on. And then you get the denialists--let's be honest about what they are--thinking this status quo is fine, that people are paid poorly and have crummy jobs because they're lazy and don't work hard enough. No, our economy has fundamentally restructured, and that's why so many people are getting a raw deal. It's not going to fix itself, either.

 

[Nyotarules]

I vote no.

$15 dollar minimum wage for entry level positions and unskilled labor is absurd. If you want to make more money then I believe you earn it by working for a better position, by getting a skill or education and putting in time. People expect too much to be given to them these days. Minimum wage was never (and has never) been intended to earn a living on.

Looks forward to the day cleaners go on strike, see how much work your local surgeon/doctor/nurse can do in your local hospital.

 

[BillJ]

...fast food, retail service...

Another twenty years, and many of these jobs will be gone. What will the moochers* do then?

*Does it bother anyone else that we are now to the point that we consider people who work hard for very little "moochers"? Thanks a lot Conservatitve media! You would think those who follow that stuff would begin to figure things out as corporate profits continue to soar.

 

[Jayson1]

Another thing to consider is how unrealistic is to think that some people can learn new skills. My mom is 60 years old. How many 60 year olds are going to really be able to adapt to new skills. She can barely work the internet yet we the think someone who has being doing one line of work their entire life is all of sudden become computer savy and understand modern technology.
Time they lean a new skill they will be close to retirement and also will have to compete against younger people who understand this new world, better.

Jason

 

[Nyotarules]

This country was built on the idea that the harder you work the more successful you become. Somehow that has been lost and now people think they are owed something; newsflash - you are not owed anything, you have to earn it!

Someone should have told the slaves (that bunch of crap) those enlightening words of truth.

 

[Nyotarules]

It's the placing of an arbitrary value (AKA minimum wage) that I object to. Why not let the employer and worker set a mutually agreed upon value?
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You want the one with the economic power to have fair dealings with the one who does not have it? ROFLOL
Scorpion to frog - 'let's figure out a way to cross this river without me stinging and killing you, shall we'?