Unseen TOS....

[aridas sofia]

My thought wasn’t so much nomadic at the time of TOS as nomadic in origin. It was based in something written by Jerome Bixby or John Meredyth Lucas, or maybe Gene Coon, that included the background about the Klingons being poor and deprived of resources, and being forced outward just to survive. Mara says as much in “Day of the Dove”: “We have always fought. We must. We are hunters, Captain, tracking and taking what we need. There are poor planets in the Klingon systems, we must push outward if we are to survive.”

 

[Lord Other]

Unless the D7 design is one they stole from the Hur'q. Or, conversely, a design that was meant to represent the change in their appearance (whenever and however that was supposed to happen).

In my personal head canon (and before "Enterprise") I thought that the Klingons captured a Declaration-class vessel / XCV-330 sister ship (like the ones shown below) and had modified/adapted some elements of "Earther" design to make their vessels more warp dynamic or maneuverable. My ten cents, and YMMV of course.

The "crank wing" element definitely harkens back to the D7 design, which is of course to be completely expected since Matt Jefferies drew on this design when putting the D7 design together.

In the same episode, "Obsession" we also hear:

KIRK: Range, Mister Chekov?
CHEKOV: Point zero four light years ahead. Our phasers won't reach it, sir.​

So phaser range is definitely less than 0.4 LY 0.04 LY but we don't know by how much. We do know that deflectors were raised only when the cloud started to approach the Enterprise so maybe the ship felt the torpedo explosions because the shields were not up?

Pshaw.. it's only 234 billion miles! No biggie.

 

[blssdwlf]

In my personal head canon (and before "Enterprise") I thought that the Klingons captured a Declaration-class vessel / XCV-330 sister ship (like the ones shown below) and had modified/adapted some elements of "Earther" design to make their vessels more warp dynamic or maneuverable. My ten cents, and YMMV of course.

The "crank wing" element definitely harkens back to the D7 design, which is of course to be completely expected since Matt Jefferies drew on this design when putting the D7 design together.

Damn. I can't unsee that D7 wing resemblance now

 

[137th Gebirg]

Wow - seriously. Been looking at these things for over 40 years now, and I never noticed that. Makes perfect sense, though.

 

[Warped9]

Just like on Earth it’s entirely possible for two disparate groups with no contact with each other to come up with very similar solutions.

Also if you really look at it there is a fair degree in conceptual similarity between MJ’s Enterprise design and the D7.

 

[Lord Other]

Also if you really look at it there is a fair degree in conceptual similarity between MJ’s Enterprise design and the D7.

I believe I just said that..
-Spock

 

[Warped9]

I believe I just said that..
-Spock

I wasn’t referring to the early ringship Enterprise, but the TOS Enterprise. The TOS E and the D7 both have a primary hull, interconnecting dorsal and secondary hull with warp nacelles attached. The shapes and proportions are different, but the essential concept is similar.

 

[aridas sofia]

He was working from a basic operational premise, like that with the airplane that leads to them all having the same basic form, that physical laws are in play dictating a general starship form, ie it takes a helluva lot of power to warp space so you gots to keep those bairns far far away from your people.

 

[trynda1701]

You probably don't want to influence your thought process, but for everyone else, ECHenry did his version of this ship on his YouTube channel about a year ago.

I know he did his interpretation of the "Fridays Child" ship, but in the original version of "Errand of Mercy", we don't SEE the ship firing on the Enterprise, only the weapons fire itself, didn't we?

So did ECHenry do one completely speculatively, like @Warped9 is about to do, or is it the "Fridays Child" video you're talking about?

PS, I agree with @UssGlenn go your own way with this @Warped9 . ECHenry does GREAT work, but I don't want him influencing you, because his work isn't done under this projects 1966-69 mindset.

 

[Warped9]

I have gone back over Matt Jefferies’ development sketches for the D7 and there are kernels of ideas there. Today, or since TSFS, the idea of a Klingon scout class ship would be the familiar Klingon BoP. But I don’t think Jefferies would necessarily have come up with something like that in 1967. Then again maybe he might have as a precursor to doing a full up warship two years later for “Elaan Of Troyius.”

Also whatever I come up with here could it be reused later for “Friday’s Child” or would that have to be yet another design? It would make more sense if the EoM miniature could be reused.

 

[trynda1701]

While what you come up with here could and probably would have been reused in "Fridays Child", I would like to see what you make of the glowing wedge, trailing prongs effect we originally got in 1967.

 

[Warped9]

While what you come up with here could and probably would have been reused in "Fridays Child", I would like to see what you make of the glowing wedge, trailing prongs effect we originally got in 1967.

If I recall correctly the glowing object we saw in “Mudd’s Women” representing Mudd’s shop was supposedly a piece of cereal with light cast on it—rather weird if true. It’s possible the object seen in “Friday”s Child” could also be a piece of throwaway stuff used for the sake of cheapness and expedience. In that case I wouldn’t put too much stock into what we saw originally if we assume the conceit of them having a bit more time and money to do something better.

It’s not that I would totally ignore what was done originally, but I wouldn’t be totally limited to it either.

 

[trynda1701]

If I recall correctly the glowing object we saw in “Mudd’s Women” representing Mudd’s shop was supposedly a piece of cereal with light cast on it—rather weird if true.

Yeah, that IS weird. Hadn't heard that story before I don't think!

 

[Lord Other]

I have gone back over Matt Jefferies’ development sketches for the D7 and there are kernels of ideas there. Today, or since TSFS, the idea of a Klingon scout class ship would be the familiar Klingon BoP. But I don’t think Jefferies would necessarily have come up with something like that in 1967. Then again maybe he might have as a precursor to doing a full up warship two years later for “Elaan Of Troyius.”

Also whatever I come up with here could it be reused later for “Friday’s Child” or would that have to be yet another design? It would make more sense if the EoM miniature could be reused.

I dunno - the general overall shape of the Scout Ship from the Leif Ericson Galactic Cruiser AMT kit distinctly reminds me of the body form of the D7. Since his sketches on Project Rho's site here and Bob Rehak's Graphic Engine site here seem to indicate that the Scout Ship design as follows was developed during Matt Jefferies' time working on TOS, you might draw upon that.

 

[UssGlenn]

I know he did his interpretation of the "Fridays Child" ship, but in the original version of "Errand of Mercy", we don't SEE the ship firing on the Enterprise, only the weapons fire itself, didn't we?

So did ECHenry do one completely speculatively, like @Warped9 is about to do, or is it the "Fridays Child" video you're talking about?

PS, I agree with @UssGlenn go your own way with this @Warped9 . ECHenry does GREAT work, but I don't want him influencing you, because his work isn't done under this projects 1966-69 mindset.

You're right, I got my episodes mixed up, but I think it does make sense for the two ships to be the same in universe.

 

[blssdwlf]

If I recall correctly the glowing object we saw in “Mudd’s Women” representing Mudd’s shop was supposedly a piece of cereal with light cast on it—rather weird if true.

LOL if it were true. It looked more like someone took the Jupiter 2, flipped it upside down and attached a wedge to end.

 

[Lord Other]

If I recall correctly the glowing object we saw in “Mudd’s Women” representing Mudd’s shop was supposedly a piece of cereal with light cast on it—rather weird if true.

LOL if it were true. It looked more like someone took the Jupiter 2, flipped it upside down and attached a wedge to end.

I'll just leave this here...

 

[Warped9]

I'll just leave this here...

Hmm…could be.

 

[publiusr]

the general overall shape of the Scout Ship from the Leif Ericson Galactic Cruiser AMT

The parent ship I see flying with the DY-100s.

The little flyer could work. I always thought that tiny craft was wrongly scaled to go in the LE.

 

[Warped9]

One of the hardest things to do in this project is ignore decades of post TOS designs that one could unwittingly retcon back into the original source material.

A case in point would be Franz Joseph’s ship designs. Would Matt Jefferies have done what FJ did if he had been tasked to come up with other Starfleet designs. I don’t think anyone really knows the answer.

One of the post TOS designs I have always liked is the Defiant from DS9. It’s obviously a Starfleet ship, and you can even see a saucer and nacelles in the design, but it doesn’t look like an obvious rearrangement of familiar elements. It’s its own thing and looks really cool.

Now with the Klingon scoutship there is a pressure to follow a familiar concept. But I keep thinking a smaller ship with a different mission profile could look somewhat different from its bigger cousins while still retaining some familial connection to support the idea the same culture built both the scoutship and the bigger D7.

And this is the path I’ve opted to explore as I start sketching to flesh it out.