Unseen TOS....

[Warped9]

Preliminary renders. I need to tweak some colours and I have yet to add the bird of prey graphic on the underside. Except for a row of square panels on the curved bow edge I think of ally the other hull detail as sensor arrays and invisibility screen emitters. So there a very few lighted windows on this design.

I added a touch of detail to the inside of the nacelle aft ends even though they likely wouldn’t be visible. Also if you see close pics of the original miniature you note some of the detailing is rough compared to a 3D model where details are precise.

I am not adding the hull details Mike McMaster added to his drawings even though I’m tempted. Yes, it should have impulse ports, but the original didn’t. It’s possible Wah Chang simply reasoned all the propulsion, both FTL and sublight, were all in the nacelles.

 

[publiusr]

That looks spot on.

So it would seem...
On a side note: the miniature entries on ADB's Shapeways storefront each include a 3D viewer, so you can take a look at the "model" of the ship if you so wish - which might help if you want to gauge the design evolution from Warbird to War Eagle to King Eagle to King Eagle-X. (Each product page also tells you the dimensions of the miniature in question, which vary depending on the scale it is set at.)

Jim's blueprints include side views of many different artists---
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/romulan-bird-of-prey-from-tos.312847/

--I could see each of those having a different scale...the chunkier versions being the smallest--with larger versions being more graceful. 1.), 4.), and 8.) are the closest.

 

[Warped9]

The drawing from the Polar Lights assembly instruction sheet shows the trailing edges of the pylons more raked and reaching a bit further back than shown in the McMaster drawings. Thats too involved a fix for me to bother with here. However, I did fix the underside of my model to some degree to look more like the PL drawing. Same with the detail of the nacelle aft end caps and the fin on the topside.

One detail I can't fix at this point was noted upthread. the sides of the main hull that angle rearward are not actually straight on the PL drawings. Thats a subtle nuance that involves more thought on how the pylons would attach and have to be shaped and constructed. Thats something I'll adress whenever I revisit this design.

And although I can’t be certain I think the PL version looks to be proportionately a bit thicker in the main hull than the McMaster drawing. At some point I will revisit this model using the PL drawing as the template.

Speaking of details my take on the hull details has them thinner, closer to the hull surface, than what is seen in closeups of the original miniature. I just felt the original detail, particularly the windows, protruded too far from the hull surface—they looked rough. So a minor tweak.

I think there is a rather pulpy SF look to this design. I can imagine something like this being on some SF magazine or book cover back in the ‘50s or so depicting the “dastardly Venusian aliens” come to attack Earth. It really is basically a saucer tweaked in shape with wings and engine pods added.

 

[aridas sofia]

My impression of the ship is that it was (comparatively) slow. At best it had low warp flight capability. That means it can’t range too far from home. And its cruises would likely be protacted.

My impression from both this vessel and the Orion attacker in “Journey to Babel” is of ships that can only express one strength at a time. They lack the ability to blend speed, defenses, stealth, and weapons, but instead pour the vast majority of their available power into one of those things at a time. So the BoP cannot use its warp drive when cloaked. But uncloaked, it can move from place to place with speed adequate to a Federation adversary.

Enterprise is a different kind of ship running multiple reactors each dedicated to various systems, and thus can walk and chew gum at the same time.

 

[Warped9]

So, studying Polar Lights’ drawings of the BoP is very interesting as it shows much more exact detail than the McMaster drawings.

- the main hull is thicker than the McMaster version.
- the underside has more nuance to its contours.
- the tapered sides of the main hull are not actually straight.
- the support pylons (wings) are more raked on the trailing edge, reaching a bit further aft.
- both upper and lower surfaces of the pylons are curved as opposed to how I made the upper surface flat following the straight sides of the main hull.
- the detailing on the forward leading edge of the main hull is more precise.

Next time I revisit this design the PL drawings will be the template.

This really is classic TOS design as you study it. It’s a deceptively simple looking shape, but with nuances, some head scratching, that make it unique. And this is true of pretty much all the TOS designs. I’d say the Klingon D7 is probably TOS’ most elaborate design particularly with the compound curves in the aft section.

 

[Warped9]

Very interesting. Very telling. I’m seriously considering starting over from scratch.

 

[trynda1701]

That's some difference!



One quick thought. Maybe you COULD show Impulse ports. There were unseen on the episode, not being actually on the model, perhaps due to no lights, or time restraints? But perhaps you could add something?

 

[Warped9]

That's some difference!

One quick thought. Maybe you COULD show Impulse ports. There were unseen on the episode, not being actually on the model, perhaps due to no lights, or time restraints? But perhaps you could add something?

We do see the aft end of the BoP in “Balance Of Terror” and there obviously no impulse ports.

One has to remember back in the day when fans were first trying to draw schematics of the TOS ships all they had to go on were photo stills and what they saw on television. The AMT models were largely inaccurate and Franz Joseph’s blueprints and tech manual also got many things wrong despite his impressive presentation. This simply wasn’t a thing studios cared about until they saw the intense interest Star Trek fans showed for this kind of material. Star Wars didn’t really start this kind of tie-in merchandising—Star Trek was there first.


I’m not divorced of my idea that maybe the Romulans integrated their impulse sublight drive within their FTL space warp nacelles and thus display no obvious impulse outlets where we would usually expect them. That might also account for the ship’s comparatively slow warp capabilities compared to ships like the Enterprise. Later, in “The Deadly Years,” perhaps the Romulans had since refit and upgraded their Warbirds to have better warp capabilities which allowed them to intercept the Enterprise cruising through the Neutral Zone.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Very interesting. Very telling. I’m seriously considering starting over from scratch.

You should. This is an interesting variant.

 

[Warped9]

You should. This is an interesting variant.

I’m finding myself wishing I had the actual Polar Lights model kit in hand to closely study the parts and their shapes firsthand. I have the PL kits of the Enterprise and the Klingon D7 as additional additional firsthand reference for when I get around to modelling those. And now that I also have the PL kit of the Galileo shuttlecraft I might one day revisit that despite all the work I’ve already done on it.

 

[Warped9]

Wow! Okay this is really telling. This is again comparing the Mike McMaster drawing with the Polar Lights drawings. Here I have the McMaster schematic overtop of the PL drawing. Again I have used the main hull length as the base line. McMaster's version is a lot wider than the PL version. As a result many proportions and shapes are really thrown off because of the increased size. And you can clearly see the difference in the contours along the sides of the main hull.

I think I can see where part of McMaster's error was. He might have interpreted the main hull diameter as proportionately wider than it actually was which subsequently threw his other measurements off. As a result the superstructure atop the main hull is set further back than it should be--this affected the angle of the topside of the main hull which makes his version look flatter than the original. He also got the cross-sectional shape of the fin wrong in that he made his straight wherein the original is actually triangular.



Okay, no question, as somehat bothersome as it is I have to start over from scratch.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I have a vague recollection that the original Romulan BOP was supposed to have been a captured and subsequently repurposed Starfleet ship. It does have similar lines and design queues, with a main saucer hull and two round nacelles on pylons. Is this something that was intended to be the case in some TOS writers’ bible, or something introduced as fan speculation after the fact? I honestly can’t remember where I read this.

 

[Warped9]

James Blish’s adaptation, taken from an earlier script draft, refers to the possibility of Romulan spies stealing a Starfleet design. In the adaptation McCoy even expresses their ships “even look like ours.” But none of that makes it into the final aired episode so, as such, none of that is official or canon. The only thing tat does make it into the aired episode is Stiles’ remark about Romulan spies possibly being aboard the Enterprise. But there is really no basis offered (in the episode) for him to say that. So the whole business of the Romulans possibly stealing an Earth, or Starfleet, design doesn’t make much sense.

In-universe it makes the Romulans look to have lousy spies, if in fact there were any, given that other than the plasma weapon and invisibility screen the BoP is notably inferior to the Enterprise in every significant way. Shouldn’t they have been able to steal more advanced tech other than just a general hull design?



I’m in the process of creating a new template with PL’s drawings, but I’ve found I have to rescale the views because they’re not all in scale with each other. That said I learned a few things on how to fashion some of the parts from my first effort so that should help make the rebuild go a bit faster.

 

[StarCruiser]

I'm going to try posting some images of the kit I have - not built yet.

Hopefully, these survive for a bit...

 

[Warped9]

^^ Those pics look like both upper and lower surfaces of the support pylons are curved. Interesting—I thought the upper surfaces could still be flat.

 

[drt]

My overriding impression from the episode is the Romulans didn’t advance much since the war while Earth and the Federation leapfrogged ahead.

Agreed. On a maybe related note, I also think it could also be argued that the Romulans of TOS were only a minor regional power and it wasn't until 70s fandom and later spinoffs they became a major power.

After all it seemed that they were bottled up into a relatively small area of space that Starfleet routinely violated. The Federation didn't seem to think there would be any repercussions from entering Romulan territory and stealing their technology. Those are behaviors a dominant power demonstrates over somebody much weaker.

 

[StarCruiser]

^^ Those pics look like both upper and lower surfaces of the support pylons are curved. Interesting—I thought the upper surfaces could still be flat.

They are gently curved. This is the 1/1000 kit that was released a couple of years back and is still out there. I know Culttvman has them in stock still ($28.99 US).

 

[Warped9]

They are gently curved.

So is the upper surface of the pylons curved like the lower surfaces or are they more gently curved than the lower surfaces?

 

[publiusr]

Wow! Okay this is really telling.



Okay, no question, as somehat bothersome as it is I have to start over from scratch.

I love this sort of art even better than fleshed out models.

I am thinking the Three-ship kit’s BoP has the widest proportional wingspan…the early SFB mini…the most narrow.

I think yours is close to the big Franklin Mint version:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174783793670

The Diamond Select
https://www.thetrekcollective.com/2016/02/dst-shows-off-their-romulan-bird-of-prey.html?m=1
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Diamond-Select-Toys-Star-Trek-Romulan-Bird-of-Prey-Ship/53587796

The Playmates
https://startrekstarships.wordpress.com/2015/10/10/romulan-bird-of-prey-2/

Bagera normally does planes…but…
https://www.deviantart.com/bagera3005/art/Romulan-Bird-of-Prey-687407857

Johnny Lightning, Galoob, and Hallmark all have theirs of course.

I think the Romulan Bird Of Prey probably has more interpretations than even Excelsior…but the differences are the hardest to spot. Some cloaking device The Glomars looked alike…but what a size difference.

A.I. photogrammetry of the original footage might settle things…but I love the variations that came from folks eyeballing it.

It could be that the early models had the nacelles too wide…and folks may have overcompensated a tad too far the other way.

The one image that sticks in my mind the most isn’t the vessel squaring off bow to bow…but it retreating…the aft 3/4 shot seen from below…the camera close to the tail section perhaps made it look wider?

And I thought early MiGs and Saberjets looked alike.

 

[IRW Bloodwing]

Admittedly this is movie era. but to give some idea of what a BoP based on Starfleet technology might have looked like, I found this fan design.