I was just thinking that if the enrolling age for Starfleet Academy is around 18 then this would normally imply that cadets are enrolling straight from graduating high school so would the Academy count as a further education type military college (I know SF isn't strictly military) and if Starfleets graduates don't go to Universities who would in the 24th century?
University and further education
- Thread starter Crewman47
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Perhaps people compete their university studies between 14 and 18 years of age?
Canonically, the existence of universities is confirmed; there is no proof that high schools exist. Also intriguingly, different people apparently are allowed to learn at different rates: a young kid in "Coming of Age" was doing calculus, while the quite a bit older Jake Sisko was struggling with algebra which is absolutely required before one can tackle calculus. Perhaps there is no structured schooling system at all, or more probably, no structure to the schooling system that would require people of specific age to attend specific stages of their studies.
Apart from that, the Academy no doubt allows one to acquire a well-rounded academic education. Picard seems to have learned a thing or three there. And the timeline would suggest Troi in fact studied in the Academy of Betazed while nominally in the Starfleet Academy...
Timo Saloniemi
Canonically, the existence of universities is confirmed; there is no proof that high schools exist. Also intriguingly, different people apparently are allowed to learn at different rates: a young kid in "Coming of Age" was doing calculus, while the quite a bit older Jake Sisko was struggling with algebra which is absolutely required before one can tackle calculus. Perhaps there is no structured schooling system at all, or more probably, no structure to the schooling system that would require people of specific age to attend specific stages of their studies.
Apart from that, the Academy no doubt allows one to acquire a well-rounded academic education. Picard seems to have learned a thing or three there. And the timeline would suggest Troi in fact studied in the Academy of Betazed while nominally in the Starfleet Academy...
Timo Saloniemi
I would likely conclude the schooling system in Trek is different to the extent that humans learn for the most part what they whish to learn.
I think they are exposed to basics (calculus being one of them) at a young age, but then a bit later in the schooling years are given an option on what they want to pursue and are not shoved with learning subjects they don't want to learn.
I think they are exposed to basics (calculus being one of them) at a young age, but then a bit later in the schooling years are given an option on what they want to pursue and are not shoved with learning subjects they don't want to learn.
Actually, in First Contact, Geordi mentions that he went to Zephrem Cochran High School.
He never mentioned how old he was, so there's still a lot of questions left unanswered.
Yeah, it always sounded to me like you got to focus on your field of interest a lot sooner than you do in the real world.
Alas.
If you look at SF Academy as you would West Point or Annapolis, both are colleges just with a pension for war fighting.
If you go to SFA then you are going to college, you would learn your basics (as Geordie) mentions in FC and then later on pick your major or MOS.
Alternatively, I assume there is also a 'direct commission' program offered at other none Fed or SF colleges/universities. Where you can go to college, get your degree in whatever you like, then join SF and do an abbreviated Academy as an officer to learn the basics of the organization and structure and defense. Just like what is offered today.
For the size of SF there has to be other facilities for officers in the fed than just the SFA in San Fran. Other SF acredited Academies for offiers.
Enlisted personnel, there is no mention if college is required. As it is with today's military's it is not.
Just like today, I doubt there is just one place the enisted go to earn their trade. Again, if you've earned a degree in college and enlist then you may or may not get a shortened 'basic' and trade school. But you will more than likely be entrusted with more duties.
But then again I am being very egocentric with my view. As if people haven't gone nuts in the future and still value childhood and individual choices and mischoices that you realize and correct later. I for one hope to not see a totalitarian regime like we see in the Fed and SF.
If you go to SFA then you are going to college, you would learn your basics (as Geordie) mentions in FC and then later on pick your major or MOS.
Alternatively, I assume there is also a 'direct commission' program offered at other none Fed or SF colleges/universities. Where you can go to college, get your degree in whatever you like, then join SF and do an abbreviated Academy as an officer to learn the basics of the organization and structure and defense. Just like what is offered today.
For the size of SF there has to be other facilities for officers in the fed than just the SFA in San Fran. Other SF acredited Academies for offiers.
Enlisted personnel, there is no mention if college is required. As it is with today's military's it is not.
Just like today, I doubt there is just one place the enisted go to earn their trade. Again, if you've earned a degree in college and enlist then you may or may not get a shortened 'basic' and trade school. But you will more than likely be entrusted with more duties.
But then again I am being very egocentric with my view. As if people haven't gone nuts in the future and still value childhood and individual choices and mischoices that you realize and correct later. I for one hope to not see a totalitarian regime like we see in the Fed and SF.
The mission of elementary, secondary and college education has changed quite a bit in the past hundred years. Expect more in the future.
I didn't get to work with a computer (via ancient remote teletype) until I was in college, and didn't actually see one until grad school. Today, some kids are on one before they can walk.
Yet, each graduating class seems dumber than the last in some respects. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out in the long run.
I didn't get to work with a computer (via ancient remote teletype) until I was in college, and didn't actually see one until grad school. Today, some kids are on one before they can walk.
Yet, each graduating class seems dumber than the last in some respects. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out in the long run.
Well, in the real world you have examples from all over the globe where people attended high schools or universities they didn't want to.
A lot of it stemmed from a combination of factors such as either not knowing what an individual really wants to do in their life, and/or pressure from the environment/family to follow in their footsteps.
I would also surmise the teachers in Trek are more in tune with their students and are able to possibly recognize and encourage development of a talent (whatever that may be) ... and while the concept of being nudged into a specific field by parents is not a stranger to Trek, it is far less emphasized compared to this day and age.
Remember that their society doesn't have money and people are supposedly more oriented to the pursuit of personal development than material acquisition.
But I also don't think there's too much pressure on humans in Trek to focus on their field of interest at a very young age.
Or it's far more likely of the kids to ascertain where their abilities lie because of radical differences in society, attitude of parents, access to technology and various other factors that are not always so favorable in the real world.
john titor
Captain
Interesting points, could you elaborate on them?
La Forge says he went to Zefram Cochrane High School in Star Trek: First Contact.
Well, I'm not sure that you really want me to go on a rant
regarding public education in the U.S. I got out of teaching a long time ago, and have been in data processing ever since.As I said, computer skills and associated things are being learned at younger and younger ages, yet it seems that a larger percentage of graduation students can't do simple math in their heads, can't read very well, or write. I once used essay questions in a science exam for a college class comprised of mostly juniors and seniors. About half of them couldn't put together enough sentences to describe a simple experiment. It was so depressing that I stayed with objective tests forever after. Now, that was quite a few years ago, but I doubt that things have gotten better.
So, the citizens of tomorrow are going to be far better at some things and far worse at others. I would expect schools to be changing their focus if they are to survive. Perhaps the ubiquitous computer will be successfully exploited. The kids might still get 12 years and out, but said years will have different things emphasized.
I always assumed that you could apply at 18 if you wanted to, or you could go to an academic institution and maybe think about it later in life. I suppose I'd compare the academy to somewhere like Sandhurst or Welbeck, military schools which you go to post secondary school at the age of 18.
Referring to the original question, I think that people who don't want to be in Starfleet would be off to uni to get into another profession! If everyone's in Starfleet, who's watching the planet?!
Referring to the original question, I think that people who don't want to be in Starfleet would be off to uni to get into another profession! If everyone's in Starfleet, who's watching the planet?!
I see Starfleet Academy as a post-18 (or equivalent for other cultures!) institution, but crucially something you enroll in as a young adult if you want to be a career Starfleet officer.
I imagine that it provides academic tuition as well as training to become an officer. A lot of characters on the various shows have mentioned very academic-sounding theoretical courses taught at the academy, for example, Temporal Mechanics, Archaeology, Exobiology, Creative Writing (!) (Google for "Walter Horne", mentioned in "The Game").
I'm sure a lot of these courses have a slant towards how they might be used in the field, but certainly the Academy seems to be providing academic tuition as well as battle drills and simulator training.
A stay at the Academy seems to last three or four years for our main characters, but remember of course that they all tend to be quite exceptional students serving on flagships at the like, so it may be that for your more average Starfleet Academy graduates, a stay might be a bit longer.
In any case, I'm sure there's time to get all this done, obviously I'd expect teaching methods to be better in the 24thC, what with the vast amount of data they have on human and alien psychology.
Those who don't go down the Starfleet route could surely go to a traditional university (and I suspect that continuous learning to better oneself is emphasized in a society where people can get by without working a day in their lives), I'm sure Starfleet Academy welcomes graduates who join later in life bringing their unique skills to Science or Medical or Engineering -- perhaps their course could be shorter, or they could skip the bits they already studied elsewhere, or specialize in something else whilst they're there.
Schools in general in the Federationverse seem to be a bit less structured than education in the Western world today (presumably children learn at home where no school is available, and we often see children of vastly different ages being taught in the same school room), I'd imagine there's less pressure to learn X, Y and Z by a particular age, and people are considered on a more case-by-case basis.
I imagine that it provides academic tuition as well as training to become an officer. A lot of characters on the various shows have mentioned very academic-sounding theoretical courses taught at the academy, for example, Temporal Mechanics, Archaeology, Exobiology, Creative Writing (!) (Google for "Walter Horne", mentioned in "The Game").
I'm sure a lot of these courses have a slant towards how they might be used in the field, but certainly the Academy seems to be providing academic tuition as well as battle drills and simulator training.
A stay at the Academy seems to last three or four years for our main characters, but remember of course that they all tend to be quite exceptional students serving on flagships at the like, so it may be that for your more average Starfleet Academy graduates, a stay might be a bit longer.
In any case, I'm sure there's time to get all this done, obviously I'd expect teaching methods to be better in the 24thC, what with the vast amount of data they have on human and alien psychology.
Those who don't go down the Starfleet route could surely go to a traditional university (and I suspect that continuous learning to better oneself is emphasized in a society where people can get by without working a day in their lives), I'm sure Starfleet Academy welcomes graduates who join later in life bringing their unique skills to Science or Medical or Engineering -- perhaps their course could be shorter, or they could skip the bits they already studied elsewhere, or specialize in something else whilst they're there.
Schools in general in the Federationverse seem to be a bit less structured than education in the Western world today (presumably children learn at home where no school is available, and we often see children of vastly different ages being taught in the same school room), I'd imagine there's less pressure to learn X, Y and Z by a particular age, and people are considered on a more case-by-case basis.
I just thought I should add to this as I watched "The Visitor" today, which includes references to returning to study: the older Jake Sisko goes to the Pennington School to study writing. MA states that IRL it's named after a fanzine writer who studied creative writing at university in Wellington NZ and was friends with the production staff. From this I assume that it was intended to be a higher education establishment, as this Kiwi university's creative writing programme is apparently renowned, so I assume that they based it on her experience.
Also, he then goes on to study subspace mechanics, which I assumed he would do through Starfleet, but I don't think it says. So I expect that you can do this at any age, just as you can be a mature student in the little old 21st century.
Also, he then goes on to study subspace mechanics, which I assumed he would do through Starfleet, but I don't think it says. So I expect that you can do this at any age, just as you can be a mature student in the little old 21st century.
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